DS9 - Rejoined

[CrypticMirror]

Why would Trills have this taboo? Well, if they didn't then it would be an endless cycle of get symbiont, take up old flame, and that would pretty soon lead to an immortal aristocracy. And you know what that leads to? Pitchforks, scythes, and heads [and in this case, symbionts] on pikes. It is self preservation of the species, because if they were not really serious about stamping it out, then the humanoid Trill population would soon be stamping on symbionts. I'm guessing the reason there is not some secret taboo breaking colony somewhere is that everytime some splitters did try and go off and create one, they all suffered a tragic...ominous pause...accident.

[FaxModem1]

Why would Trills have this taboo? Well, if they didn't then it would be an endless cycle of get symbiont, take up old flame, and that would pretty soon lead to an immortal aristocracy. And you know what that leads to? Pitchforks, scythes, and heads [and in this case, symbionts] on pikes. It is self preservation of the species, because if they were not really serious about stamping it out, then the humanoid Trill population would soon be stamping on symbionts. I'm guessing the reason there is not some secret taboo breaking colony somewhere is that everytime some splitters did try and go off and create one, they all suffered a tragic...ominous pause...accident.

I think a good example of this would be the 'flame' technology from The 100. The flame is a device that copies a person's brain and puts it into a computer chip that is inserted surgically into the neck. On Earth, the Grounders used it for their leaders, so that they were knowledgeable about everything their past leaders were up to. It became ritualized, and continued. Seasons later, we see a human colony use it strictly for continuing the lives of the original owners. To rule as gods and sucker the people under them.

I think the trill chose the better option in having symbiotes not be their rulers, but enforce things way too harshly.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Here, however, we end with the critique that the only thing holding them back is society and the taboos society has caused them to internalize. The story ends that if only there was a change in society, things might have worked out differently--it plants a small seed of hope and redirects any complaint to the system which perpetuates these norms. That is an improvement compared to the finality of TNG's Beverley story IMO, because one cannot change a system, taboo, etc. until one acknowledges the issue is systemic in the first place.

So in terms of getting Star Trek to show a same-sex couple I think this was an important step and use of allegory and a necessary one, but is it perfect? By no means

That's not my take on it.

They entered that life with full cognizance of the rules. I don't think the episode is to say anything about a prognosis of society, nor even a diagnosis really. It's a portrayal depicting bisexuality and the tendancy of society to default towards socially influenced relationships and sexuality -- corrected, if you will.

I just think the satire is pretty consistent.

Also as Chuck was pointing out, allegory isn't necessarily precise to the point where all characters on stage are representing a specific type of person in the real world. Though I do think you can make a case for characters representing specific forces of society that have consistent influence on the subject's lives.

[RobbyB1982]

I'm reminded of how some people pointed out (especially in retrospect, because of the Wachowskis) the Matrix trilogy missed the opportunities to explore the idea of someone who was one gender in the simulation but the other gender in the real world. Though if Matrix 4 actually comes to fruition I suspect that will finally be addressed.

They wanted to. I think in the first film one of the crew was going to be different between worlds, but the execs shot that down hard. Much like "the Matrix is run using human brain processing power" made much more sense than "they were used as really efficient batteries..." but execs think a thing can't be TOO smart or controversial.

[clearspira]

I'm reminded of how some people pointed out (especially in retrospect, because of the Wachowskis) the Matrix trilogy missed the opportunities to explore the idea of someone who was one gender in the simulation but the other gender in the real world. Though if Matrix 4 actually comes to fruition I suspect that will finally be addressed.

They wanted to. I think in the first film one of the crew was going to be different between worlds, but the execs shot that down hard. Much like "the Matrix is run using human brain processing power" made much more sense than "they were used as really efficient batteries..." but execs think a thing can't be TOO smart or controversial.

I don't see why such a plot needs to be controversial as you can sidestep any trans allegory by making it just another level of the ''the Matrix is a cage for your mind'' theme. What bigger cage is there than your own sex?

Here's the thing: Cypher wasn't wrong in saying that Morpheus was a lying asshole and knew all too well just how many people would in fact tell him to shove that red pill if he told them the truth. He purposely emphasised the adventure of leaving the Matrix over the fact that you are going to be leaving your fiends, family, home, job and everything you have ever known for a life of squalor, eating bowls of snot every day, wearing rags and being constantly hunted down. Now factor into that the possibility of waking up to find your dick missing and that sounds like a pretty damn horrific trade to me. I realise that some may find that a great exchange, but I am happy being a man and have no interest experiencing my first period in a world where tampons are probably hard to come by. Honestly, I probably would have joined Cypher in his revolt against Morpheus, and with two of us it would have succeeded as I would have told Cypher to stop monologuing and kill them already.

[Cheerilee]

Kira: What do Klingons dream about?
Worf: You don't want to know.

Oh great, now I need an Enterprise season 5 episode explaining the joke.

[Wilahelm2]

It's funny but I actually side with Trill society on this issue. While I think the punishment is way to harsh I do get the concerns and not just the ones the episode mentions. In a very real way were seeing the emotions of the former host override the ones of the current host. Do Jadzia and Lenara really love each other or are they just being used as meat puppets by the Kahn and Dax symbiont's to be together again. We some of this with Ezri and how she had to deal with her feeling with Worf. Was the love she felt her own or was it being imposed on her by the Dax symbiont. Eventually Ezri is able to separate her past feeling as Jadzia with her current ones as Ezri but be surrounded by all of Jadzia's friends and her husband no doubt made that much harder for her. What if Kahn showed up while Jadzia was having her relationship with Worf. It would have made things very awkward since it would be Jadzia's feelings for Worf fighting with Dax's feelings for Kahn. In the context of the Star Trek universe I think the rule against reassociation is a good one not just for Trill society as a whole but for the individual hosts though I think the punishment should probably be less severe.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm reminded of how some people pointed out (especially in retrospect, because of the Wachowskis) the Matrix trilogy missed the opportunities to explore the idea of someone who was one gender in the simulation but the other gender in the real world. Though if Matrix 4 actually comes to fruition I suspect that will finally be addressed.

They wanted to. I think in the first film one of the crew was going to be different between worlds, but the execs shot that down hard. Much like "the Matrix is run using human brain processing power" made much more sense than "they were used as really efficient batteries..." but execs think a thing can't be TOO smart or controversial.

I mean it's pretty similar to how GPUs mine bitcoins faster than CPUs.

[WhiteDragon25]

Is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn't give a fuck about the Trill relationship stuff (gay, lesbian, whatever the fuck it is, aliens are not obligated to have the same gender concepts as humans), and cares more about the MacGuffin technology that was introduced in this episode? You know, the artificial wormhole generator? When one of the biggest plot-points in the show is the bottleneck that is the Bajoran Wormhole?

This little detail should've been revisited during the Dominion War arc, given that we know that the Dominion invaded and captured the Trill homeworld, and they would've been very interested in a device that could reconnect them back to the Gamma Quadrant, sidestepping the minefield and turning the tide of the war in a single stroke.

Hell, it could've even been a great opportunity for a DS9/VOY crossover, with Voyager in the Delta Quadrant stumbling across an artificial wormhole the Dominion created during a field test, with Voyager's brief return on the wrong side of the front lines inadvertently saving the Alpha Quadrant, as they raise merry hell on the Dominion with their shenanigans before fleeing back to the Delta Quadrant and blowing up the wormhole generator during their exit, with a bajillion angry Jem'Hadar Bug Fighters swarming after them.

So much lost goddamn potential.

[Fianna]

They were able to produce a small wormhole that existed for a brief time, with no indication that knew or could control where it went. While a major breakthrough in their field of study, it's not unreasonable to say that developing and refining the technology so it can safely and reliably transport people in a non-random fashion could take a long time, longer than the 3 1/2 years left before the end of the series/the Dominion War.

Like, scientists found a way to generate antimatter 25 years ago, and we're still waiting on the antimatter engine.