DS9 - Rejoined

[Freeverse]

I find it ironic that this episode is the first to get this new award, since I always thought it was the one time where the fact that the love interest was doomed to never appear again actually adds to the episode. I personally felt like it was a strong episode, and the punishment for he taboo made sense to me, not only because it was effectively the same as something that happened to gay people at the time (and actually, it was a bit worse in real life in some cases, with parents who had disowned their gay children coming to claim inheritance on their estate when, for example, their child had died due to complications from HIV/AIDS.) But also for the reason Chick mentions in the review. The punishment doesn't affect just the host, it affects the symbiote as well, because anything less wouldn't work as a deterrent. If they could just live their lives together until the end, knowing their symbiote would be welcomed back, it might be difficult, but there's a whole galaxy out there, and plenty of other societies to live in who wouldn't care that they had reassociated. And besides, if the punishment were anything else, except maybe a mindwipe on the symbiote (which seems like anathema to the way the Trill view their symiotes), then every time a joined Trill broke the taboo, then every host after them is going to have that memory, and that could make it harder for them to resist the next time around.

I don't agree with it, since deterrents are largely ineffective, and the real problem isn't the temptation the host feels, but the fact that it seems like the symbiote is exerting more control than what is presented as healthy for the joined Trill, so the solution should probably be some form of mediation/counselling, and in fact seems to call for a type of mental health specialist to help Trill who are dealing with these feelings to make the right decision, but I don't think its inconsistent or nonsensical.

[hammerofglass]

Also, I REALLY hope Chuck is not comparing people's bigotry to same sex relations, which are seen as 2 consent adults and pedophilia, an adult taking advantage of a child as equal subject matter

He probably had it on the mind from the bigots in the next room. It's been one of homophobia's go-to slanders forever.

[SFDebris]

FFS

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

xD

[Link8909]

Hi Chuck, really enjoyed your review of this episode, also I hope things went well with your wife's parents.

[RobbyB1982]

He probably had it on the mind from the bigots in the next room. It's been one of homophobia's go-to slanders forever.

Why do you jump to "the inlaws are bigots"?

And not the more obvious "it's embarrassing to have the inlaws think you're avoiding them so you can watch what looks like lesbian porn"?

[Freeverse]

He probably had it on the mind from the bigots in the next room. It's been one of homophobia's go-to slanders forever.

Why do you jump to "the inlaws are bigots"?

And not the more obvious "it's embarrassing to have the inlaws think you're avoiding them so you can watch what looks like lesbian porn"?

It's only "more obvious" if you think a super tame TV kiss with absolutely no other action and zero nudity looks like porn.

But then, the idea that two women kissing is more pornographic than a man and a woman kissing is another issue surrounding the portrayal of same-sex relationships.

[tyrteg]

Honestly reading this discussion is immensely entertaining and educating. I don't want to put down Chuck's wonderful and witty humor - because it's really good but watching the English speaking Westerners throw around words like "bigot" and "homophobia'" like it's candy - it gives you an appreciation of a time when people treated accusations like this seriously. When you thought hard and long before you dared accuse a fellow man of anything.

I remember growing up in a post-Soviet country with a great deal respect for USA and their culture. I remember my parents watching TNG and DS9 with us when me and my siblings were kids and showing us captain Picard, Data, Commander Sisko as examples of virtue and maturity. I remember Picard defending Barclay when Riker and Geordi wanted him thrown off the Enterprise and being told by my dad - "See that? He didn't know the guy personally. He had no idea who Barclay was but he was a reasonable Captain and so he was willing to search for the other guy's side of the story. He reminded everyone that Barclay has signed up to the same dangers and responsibilities they have and so - even if he was failing some of them - deserved the same respect and just treatment that everyone else got." When we came to this episode - Rejoined - even though "being gay" just a year ago stopped being a crime for which you legally faced incarceration - they let us watch the episode and see the possibility of a same-sex relationship being an acceptable thing "in the future" Because they respected the show. Because Star Trek - for all it's faults - presented their "topics" and "message-of-the-week" with respect. Not all of the time but enough of the time. And so I grew up loving Star Trek and looking with respect at America where the ideas and freedoms we could only dream of one day achieving were common everyday occurrence.

30 years later I tried to show my parents Star Trek: Picard. They couldn't stand it after the first episode and wouldn't watch any more of it. I remember what my dad said about what's happening in USA nowadays "Yeah I remember when I couldn't say some words publicly because I was facing a risk of loosing my job, my opportunity for an education or risk going to jail for it. We called it "Communist Dictatorship" Why are the Americans nowadays doing the same thing to themselves? That's madness!" Honestly I couldn't explain to him why.

When I'm seeing stuff like - Netflix not interested in Picard - but quite enthusiastically streaming (and even publicly defending) a movie 365 Days that very clearly by "modern definition" romanticizes and advocates for kidnapping of the girl you're interested and keeping her until she falls in love with you, when I learn that Lower Decks won't be distributed world-wide because no company is interested in buying the rights because it wouldn't be profitable and people outside USA wouldn't watch it (even though they are happily re-watching TNG) - I have to ask an honest and serious question to all of you living in the USA. Can you even entertain the possibility that " It is that perhaps Delen is wrong and the World is right?" That the USA's ideas of "equality" be it about racial issues or gender are wrong? Or are you 100% sure that "If the World says otherwise then the World is wrong!" when you don't seem to be able to even convince your own country as a whole of that truth - as clearly illustrated by your current legally voted-in President?

SF Debris's server has so far proven to be a place of reason with people able to discuss things in a civilized way which is why I'm asking here. I'm not asking out of malice - simply out of curiosity. I would love to get an answer from Chuck as well but I do understand I have no right to demand anything off him least of all his free time and I also understand that giving any answer at all could be detrimental to his business and as such - don't expect it.

[GreyICE]

FFS

I hope we get an epic rant out of that post.

I mean not for your blood pressure, but just kind of in general.

Okay, I hate that it gets to you because you don't deserve it, but I find the rants themselves hilarious?

[hammerofglass]

He probably had it on the mind from the bigots in the next room. It's been one of homophobia's go-to slanders forever.

Why do you jump to "the inlaws are bigots"?

And not the more obvious "it's embarrassing to have the inlaws think you're avoiding them so you can watch what looks like lesbian porn"?

Relevant bit starts at 13:05 for those following at home.

Going by the "FFS" comment he used "extremely conservative" to describe them without it being meant as a polite euphemism for "bigot". I took it as a direct call-out (especially combined with the immigrants bit), which it's clear now wasn't the intent. I honestly haven't seen that phrase used to mean anything else in a decade or so, but there you go. Mea culpa.