Remember how the Mainstream Media said they won't be coming for Jefferson and Washington Next?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Read a book. Get some new thoughts in your head instead of constantly reheating the old ones. I am so, so tired of this.

I think something powerful about reading a book too is that you get to sit down with someone else's voice and just listen, rather than jumping up to rebut them, or googling something, or watching some idiot Youtube shit about it. You can flip back and reference it later, but in the process of reading, you immerse yourself in their point of view. It gives you some actual empathy for how they think.

(And before someone jumps in and says "you should do that with right wingers" I've read books by Coulter, Beck, Goldwater, Rand, Hayek, and Hitler, among plenty others)

I did have a conversation someone of color who softened my opposition to social justice stuff but it didn't make me do a complete 180, partly because that person is an anti-SJW too, at least on the feminism side of things. and please lean the difference between anti-SJWs who agree with the cause but not the extremes and the ones who are all "ah, the Ghostbusters have vaginas now!" I like laughing at the latter as much as anyone and for the same reasons.

There's a reason I'm an 'Egalitarian'. It's the least poisonable term I've been able to find.

If people want to poison a term they will find a way to, though.

[Antiboyscout]

https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/whiteness



Wow, this is what whiteness is apparently. This is what they want to tear down.

[GreyICE]

There's a reason I'm an 'Egalitarian'. It's the least poisonable term I've been able to find.

If people want to poison a term they will find a way to, though.

Oh god yes. If a group wanted to poison "egalitarian" it would be easy. Just have someone say they're an egalitarian, they don't see gender/racial differences, don't see LGBT issues, so they think everyone who makes an issue out of them or brings them up is a bad person. The old "you wouldn't have homophobia if it wasn't for all those Pride Parades" bullshit. Then relentlessly call out Pride Parades, BLM, the ADL, or anyone else who sees the problems as "actually having created the problems" because they saw them. "Charlottesville was just a reaction to Black Lives Matter! Both are part of the problem."

Don't let yourself be defined by what bad faith actors want to have happen. Recognize their actions, but if you give them weight on how you define yourself, you're giving them power over you.

Edit: Antiboyscout posts something useful for once! I'm happy with the improvement.

[Antiboyscout]

There's a reason I'm an 'Egalitarian'. It's the least poisonable term I've been able to find.

If people want to poison a term they will find a way to, though.

Oh god yes. If a group wanted to poison "egalitarian" it would be easy. Just have someone say they're an egalitarian, they don't see gender/racial differences, don't see LGBT issues, so they think everyone who makes an issue out of them or brings them up is a bad person. The old "you wouldn't have homophobia if it wasn't for all those Pride Parades" bullshit. Then relentlessly call out Pride Parades, BLM, the ADL, or anyone else who sees the problems as "actually having created the problems" because they saw them. "Charlottesville was just a reaction to Black Lives Matter! Both are part of the problem."

Don't let yourself be defined by what bad faith actors want to have happen. Recognize their actions, but if you give them weight on how you define yourself, you're giving them power over you.

Edit: Antiboyscout posts something useful for once! I'm happy with the improvement.

Those are the things you want to tear down? The scientific method, work ethic, and long term planing? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

as for poisoning egalitarianism:

[Dragon Ball Fan]

you know, one of the guys I do still respect from YouTube says the idea behind Black Lives Matter and other social justice movements is not to make any one person feel guilty or be blamed but it feels like people on this thread want me to feel guilty for being white or not condemning every single individual cop in the country.

[TGLS]

You can't seriously read Starship Troopers then The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and tell me you think that the political views presented in both are both views that Heinlein holds, right? You have to be able to see that the two books are mutually contradictory, and that that's a good indication that the author is not presenting their views at all in EITHER book, right?

Well on one hand:

There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot.

Of course on the other, there were 7 years between both books. Evolving viewpoints and all.

[ProfessorDetective]

There's a reason I'm an 'Egalitarian'. It's the least poisonable term I've been able to find.

If people want to poison a term they will find a way to, though.

Oh god yes. If a group wanted to poison "egalitarian" it would be easy. Just have someone say they're an egalitarian, they don't see gender/racial differences, don't see LGBT issues, so they think everyone who makes an issue out of them or brings them up is a bad person. The old "you wouldn't have homophobia if it wasn't for all those Pride Parades" bullshit. Then relentlessly call out Pride Parades, BLM, the ADL, or anyone else who sees the problems as "actually having created the problems" because they saw them. "Charlottesville was just a reaction to Black Lives Matter! Both are part of the problem."

Don't let yourself be defined by what bad faith actors want to have happen. Recognize their actions, but if you give them weight on how you define yourself, you're giving them power over you.

Edit: Antiboyscout posts something useful for once! I'm happy with the improvement.

Just to be clear, I go by the text book definition:

From Oxford:

'The doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.'

If you WASTE those opportunities or try to hamper others from taking advantage of theirs or impeach on their rights, then we'll have problems.

Of course I also add in a bit of Social Democratic ideas. Give people just enough to survive while giving them the opportunities to achieve more than those bare basics.

So... The Federation at their best, basically.

Anyway, the best term for me would be a 'Social Democratic Egalitarian'.

[ProfessorDetective]

You can't seriously read Starship Troopers then The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and tell me you think that the political views presented in both are both views that Heinlein holds, right? You have to be able to see that the two books are mutually contradictory, and that that's a good indication that the author is not presenting their views at all in EITHER book, right?

Well on one hand:

There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot.

Of course on the other, there were 7 years between both books. Evolving viewpoints and all.

Now read 'Stranger in a Strange Land'. Heinlein is a trip of a man.

Comedic CliffsNotes version:

youtu.be/3jAkplrZci0

[phantom000]

Well that's kind of disturbing. Starship Troopers is his fascist utopia. It's part of a series - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a libertarian utopia, and Stranger in a Strange Land is a communist utopia.

If you find yourself uncritically going "that sounds like a good idea!" to any one of those three then you've had some issues in your analysis.

Or its a sign of just how bad the situation has become when one of them sounds like a better alternative. But yeah, i have issues with the Terran Federation as it is presented in the book, mostly because it allows the state to decide who can and cannot vote, which is one small step away from a fascist autocracy.

Still, seeing these crowds want to pull down a confederate memorial or people saying we should demolish the Washington Monument, I can't help but wonder 'how many of them are actually combat veterans?'

It's not "one step away from a fascist autocracy". It's literally a fascist utopia. Heinlein is presenting fascism, and very deliberately.

You can't seriously read Starship Troopers then The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and tell me you think that the political views presented in both are both views that Heinlein holds, right? You have to be able to see that the two books are mutually contradictory, and that that's a good indication that the author is not presenting their views at all in EITHER book, right?

I haven't read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and I keep telling myself i will read Stranger in a Strange Land but i never do.

I have read most of his juvenile stories and i think a lot of his work is a kind of thought experiment. What happens to the legal system when you make contact with alien civilizations? How do you run a business in a world where magic is real? So the Terran Federation is just another thought experiment.

My main complaint with Starship Troopers is how everyone so certain that there system cannot fail and how it alone is the cause of this perfect world they seem to be living in. It feels less like Heinlein trying to tell a story and more like him getting on a soap box and preaching. Either you just shut up and accept what he is saying no questions asked, or you start arguing with him, and i am very much in the ladder category.

Still, I have to give credit where it is due. Starship Troopers was the first modern mecha story, which is easily my favorite genre of science fiction. So whatever i say about the book, this did lead to a lot of stuff i actually like, such as Mobil Suit Gundam and Battletech.

[Darth Wedgius]

The idea that only whites can be racist is just NPCs trying to justify their own racism. It's not a question of what racism really means, because it doesn't really mean anything. There's no objective definition of a word. I chose a definition that discourages bigotry instead of excusing it.

At some point you realize someone has been playing video games so long they don’t know how to talk to real people.

This explains a lot here.

AH.

Notice how you didn't address what I said? What lengths will you go to for the defense of bigotry?

Defense of your bigotry Darth? None. You're the only person in this entire thread who brought up that silly strawman. Now you're trying to attack me for not defending a strawman that only you are discussing. And apparently you have me confused with a video game character.

As I said, you have a tenuous connection to reality. Have fun with that.

Try again. I've never called for discrimination by race, sex, or religion. Wouldn't be surprised if you would. I'd be surprised if you were honest about it, but, hey, this is you.

As to the strawman, it isn't. There are plenty of people on the left who will say flat out that minorities cannot be racist, because racism is bigotry plus power.

It's a pretty typical NPC response, actually.