The Orville

[GreyICE]

Yeah - the cooking was stupid. Concerning the Kes / Neelix-Relationship:
I concur, for you and me it's creepy. In the context of the show: I think, Kes would beg to differ. Oh, sure, the Voyager-Crew could be like "Erm... that makes us kinda uncomfortable" - but Kes would say "And who are you to judge us?"
And while we're at it: if we say "No, that's kinda icky" - then please don't tell stories about Seven of Nine discovering her sexuality. She was assimilated, when she was - six, I think? So, she is emotionally a kid, said six year old.

Sure, I can put aside the age stuff as crazy alien biology. What I can't put aside is the power dynamic. Kes' dream, the entire reason she joined Voyager, gave up her home, was to see the Universe. Neelix promises her she'll see the universe, her one greatest dream, because he'll show it to her. And what does he show her? Mostly, Voyager's mess hall and some dirty space hobos. That power dynamic and experience dynamic is harder to set aside.

Now I'm aware that I'm giving the Voyager writers far too much credit if I assume they thought this through rather than thinking "Neelix is our breakout character! We'll give him a romance with hot blonde for more screen time!"

Concerning "the Orville" - meh.
If Mercer would've been more mature, he had said "Know what? It's kinda sad, that I couldn't prove myself, but nevertheless, thank you Commander Wonder Woman and Admiral Firestorm for pulling the strings. I'm sure I'mma prove, that I am worthy of your trust."

But if Mercer was more emotionally mature, he'd have the flagship position he has the intellectual and leadership abilities to receive, and wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. I mean the entire reason he got divorced is he wasn't emotionally mature enough to handle a relationship, and couldn't communicate (and weird alien biology). The entire reason he let his career crater was he wasn't emotionally mature enough to handle the divorce. Then he gets a command... and is emotionally immature.

It's not a great character trait, but it's definitely consistent.

[Robovski]

Well, he also got a divorce because he caught his wife in bed having sex with someone else. Infidelity is still a thing in the future it seems.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

Neelix promised her to show her the universe - and she's on Voyager, which is on her way home through… the universe. I'mma play advocatus diaboli here and say: "Promise fulfilled".
And it's not as if he would've locked up Kes in her quarters - she participates in life on Voyager, is responsible for the hydroponics bay, works as nurse with the Doctor, has friendships to the crew, gets mentored by Janeway, the Doctor and Tuvok - granted, when Neelix thinks, that she gets too friendly with Tom Paris, he throws a temper tantrum, but it's not as if Kes would then turn into a meek housewife, but she tells him, that that, what he is perceiving is not there.

And when Neelix tries to get possessive of her, he gets told "Nope" by Kes herself, so - where exactly is the power dynamic? I'm pretty sure, that, if Kes would've wanted, she would've gotten out on the next space station and wandered of - which she did, essentially, in "The Gift".

[GreyICE]

Neelix promised her to show her the universe - and she's on Voyager, which is on her way home through… the universe. I'mma play advocatus diaboli here and say: "Promise fulfilled".
And it's not as if he would've locked up Kes in her quarters - she participates in life on Voyager, is responsible for the hydroponics bay, works as nurse with the Doctor, has friendships to the crew, gets mentored by Janeway, the Doctor and Tuvok - granted, when Neelix thinks, that she gets too friendly with Tom Paris, he throws a temper tantrum, but it's not as if Kes would then turn into a meek housewife, but she tells him, that that, what he is perceiving is not there.

And when Neelix tries to get possessive of her, he gets told "Nope" by Kes herself, so - where exactly is the power dynamic? I'm pretty sure, that, if Kes would've wanted, she would've gotten out on the next space station and wandered of - which she did, essentially, in "The Gift".

I guess the promise was fulfilled in the best way possible - technically! And yep, Neelix did eventually get shut down hard. Although it's really hard to rewatch that and try to set aside that I know for a fact that neither actor knew if they were "in a relationship" during their relationship due to the confusion in the writers' room until the writers came to them and told them they were going to break up. So maybe it's the fact that I can't do an unbiased rewatch of them that's coloring what I think, and I'm not being fair to either character.

[McAvoy]

One way of looking at it, is that Mercer is a flawed human being with potential. Sort of opposite of what we see in Trek. At least the 'classic' Treks. Sisko was flawed in a way that his wife's death probably held him back. He focused on the Defiant for example after Wolf 359 to keep his mind off of her death, perhaps held him back from true command. Perhaps his reluctance to even be in Starfleet too.

But he was still a Starfleet officer that was highly competent. Anger issues here and there of course.

Archer you could say he was flawed too in that he was naive and his strong dislike of Vulcans. But obviously he was the best Earth had to offer.

Obviously Mercer is immature because of the humor he is written with. Though I think some of it falls flat like how he was so upset he got the command not because himself by others. I think that was meant that he wanted that the Orville was given to him because himself and no help. Instead it was written as him being like a baby about it.

I may have to rewatch it honestly.

[Link8909]

One way of looking at it, is that Mercer is a flawed human being with potential. Sort of opposite of what we see in Trek. At least the 'classic' Treks. Sisko was flawed in a way that his wife's death probably held him back. He focused on the Defiant for example after Wolf 359 to keep his mind off of her death, perhaps held him back from true command. Perhaps his reluctance to even be in Starfleet too.

But he was still a Starfleet officer that was highly competent. Anger issues here and there of course.

Archer you could say he was flawed too in that he was naive and his strong dislike of Vulcans. But obviously he was the best Earth had to offer.

Obviously Mercer is immature because of the humor he is written with. Though I think some of it falls flat like how he was so upset he got the command not because himself by others. I think that was meant that he wanted that the Orville was given to him because himself and no help. Instead it was written as him being like a baby about it.

I may have to rewatch it honestly.

That's fair, The Orville has an advantage over any Star Trek show since it is primarily a comedy and the characters can safely act the way they do and it can still be funny even with serious moments, while for example in Star Trek Enterprise when they do comedy it's more cringey because firstly the series is framed to take itself serious, and secondly the characters are suppose to be the best humanity can be, suppose to be trained and competent professionals, and yet the crew of The Orville act more professional than Archer and the crew of the NX-01.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Data is a comedy goldmine.

[Link8909]

Data is a comedy goldmine.

Oh absolutely, Data works very well for comedy because of his lack of understanding of certain situations, he's very much the perfect straight man for comedic purposes.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Data is a comedy goldmine.

Oh absolutely, Data works very well for comedy because of his lack of understanding of certain situations, he's very much the perfect straight man for comedic purposes.

https://youtu.be/9FqFm_vmVnE?t=84

[McAvoy]

Data is a comedy goldmine.

Quark and Odo would like a word about that.

Little Green Men is still funny to me after all these years. Odo and Quarks quarrels are always gold mines.