Picard - Maps and Legends

[Link8909]

Quite - I find it unfortunate that Picard (the series) painted it a bit too simple black and white for that reason, even though in that case I agree with Picard (the character). The lack of nuance all round though is something I did find a bit disappointing, and that it's been publically declared an analogy of Brexit ignorant and dismissive.

There's a much better moral lesson when you can recognise the genuine risks, both with the androids and Romulans, and still decided to help them. In the hopelessly risk-averse society we seem to live in today there's too much denial that the risks are there, rather than accepting them and thinking it's still the right thing to do.

That's fair, there are aspects to the Federations decision that wasn't expanded upon in the series that is left up to assumption, like what the separate reasons for those 14 worlds were for planning on doing something as drastic as leaving the Federation if they chose to help the Romulans, we can only guess based off of real world reasons based on this allegory, and I'll admit the end of Season 1 was wrapped up a bit too nicely, maybe we will be seeing those consequences in Season 2, while I won't say that this was a straw man argument as I can see the point of view of the argument, I do see how this can be seen as too black and white.

[hammerofglass]

One of the biggest problems is that he's clearly following Stewart's ethical system, not Picard's. Picard has frequently and loudly expressed the idea that saving people from a natural disaster is a horrible crime that spits in the eye of nature.

[GreyICE]

Goddamn I want to see your Admiral Janeway.

[Scififan]

This was another good episode, I really liked the Androids in this, really good makeup work and great performance.

It's also quite funny that Picard never got into Science fiction, since his passion is archaeology.

Also love the review, the Janeway bit was brilliant.

He lives in a Science Fiction world, so it kind of makes sense.

[Fianna]

I wonder if things might have gone over better if Picard had simply presented the information he'd come by to the admiral and strongly suggested she send someone to investigate the matter, rather than asking to be reinstated and lead the mission himself. Presenting himself as just a concerned citizen, rather than someone trying to get something out of the situation.

[Senko]

I wonder if the uprising robot F8, Fate, was done on purpose as some symbolism or a coincidence.

Anyway I didn't hate this episode all honestly. The secret secret Romulan police was kind of interesting even if their mission was stupid. Admiral O'Swearypants was kinda annoying for obvious reasons but I liked that she stood up to Picard, that she wasn't going to stand for his shit. I can't blame her for being made, Picard had 14 years ago nearly broke the Federation to save their mortal enemy and then bad mouthed them again like yesterday, dude could have atleast waited a week or so before begging for a boat.

If you can't save a mortal enemy when it is inconvenient to yourself, you don't deserve plaudits for helping when it is.

Starfleet would have been just as wrong and morally cowardly in a weeks time as it had been for the last fourteen years. Picard was completely in the right, and saying that he ought to have waited is just like Marge Simpson saying "its right, but you shouldn't say it". And why should anyone wait another week, when they've waited already fourteen years too long already. You do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it is the easy thing or the convenient thing. Too many wrong things, these last 19 years IRL, have been done out of convenience or ease or fear. We've all waited long enough for someone to start doing the morally right thing again.

I'm reminded of a Japanese government member some time back. When he was a boy there was a massive flood and lots of damage and one of his main priorities in the local area once he went into politics was to get the dikes upgraded. Huge uphill battle and considered a waste of time by many but he did it. Then after he passed away there was another of those once a century floods and they could compare the area he'd gotten the dikes upgraded for and the surrounding areas that hadn't and see the savings in lives and money. A whole bunch of people went to his grave and left flowers and thanks for his efforts in doing that.

Then today we have "Look, look our opposing party did something wrong you need to vote for us because we haven't been caught lately." as the government policy.

[clearspira]

I wonder if the uprising robot F8, Fate, was done on purpose as some symbolism or a coincidence.

Anyway I didn't hate this episode all honestly. The secret secret Romulan police was kind of interesting even if their mission was stupid. Admiral O'Swearypants was kinda annoying for obvious reasons but I liked that she stood up to Picard, that she wasn't going to stand for his shit. I can't blame her for being made, Picard had 14 years ago nearly broke the Federation to save their mortal enemy and then bad mouthed them again like yesterday, dude could have atleast waited a week or so before begging for a boat.

If you can't save a mortal enemy when it is inconvenient to yourself, you don't deserve plaudits for helping when it is.

Starfleet would have been just as wrong and morally cowardly in a weeks time as it had been for the last fourteen years. Picard was completely in the right, and saying that he ought to have waited is just like Marge Simpson saying "its right, but you shouldn't say it". And why should anyone wait another week, when they've waited already fourteen years too long already. You do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it is the easy thing or the convenient thing. Too many wrong things, these last 19 years IRL, have been done out of convenience or ease or fear. We've all waited long enough for someone to start doing the morally right thing again.

Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

[Riedquat]

Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

That's the sort of thing that keeps hatreds going for centuries past their sell-by date.

[clearspira]

Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

That's the sort of thing that keeps hatreds going for centuries past their sell-by date.

So just to be clear: you think that kindness will stop an empire from invading you. That is your position?

*Pssst* Look up how often the Native Americans helped out the white settlers in the early days and see where that got them.

I smell a certain amount of naivety in this forum regarding the nature of how expansionist, authoritarian governments work - which sadly really does explain how the president of China went from being pulled around in a golden carriage through London into ''He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named'' in the span of David Cameron to Boris Johnson but I digress.
FYI: Pulling the thorn out of the giant's foot may or may not net you a best friend; but there will always be a hundred more giants waiting behind him who still hate you. They will still covet your lands, hate your god, hate your culture, hate your skin colour, hate the fact that your women or gays have rights etc. and one day they will put themselves back into a position of influence.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

That's the sort of thing that keeps hatreds going for centuries past their sell-by date.

So just to be clear: you think that kindness will stop an empire from invading you. That is your position?

*Pssst* Look up how often the Native Americans helped out the white settlers in the early days and see where that got them.

I smell a certain amount of naivety in this forum regarding the nature of how expansionist, authoritarian governments work - which sadly really does explain how the president of China went from being pulled around in a golden carriage through London into ''He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named'' in the span of David Cameron to Boris Johnson but I digress.
FYI: Pulling the thorn out of the giant's foot may or may not net you a best friend; but there will always be a hundred more giants waiting behind him who still hate you. They will still covet your lands, hate your god, hate your culture, hate your skin colour, hate the fact that your women or gays have rights etc. and one day they will put themselves back into a position of influence.

Well, there are always two options - be nice, but vigilant - or be a complete douchecanoe.
Kicking my enemy while he's down - that might be the douchecanoey thing to do. In especially, if we're not in times of war.

The last battle with the romulans ended with them helping the Enterprise against Shinzon - which, I think, makes them allies to us. So, if your allies have problems, for example a big Supernova happening, you frakking go to help them! That's the right thing to do. And even if they'd not be Starfleets allies, you still help them.