Picard - Maps and Legends

[GreyICE]

The Roman Empire lasted over 500 years, conservatively. Empires can be unstable in the same way that thorium is.

Sure. And in 250 BCE it was "most of Italy". In 117 CE it reached its largest extent, and would subsequently split in half, with both halves going through massive turmoil. Inbetween it would have literal wars fought between Roman generals (Romans, using Roman legions, fighting each other in civil wars and smaller skirmishes), and an entire system of government collapsed completely.

I'd call that "unstable." Even when expansionism works, it's an inherently volatile philosophy. That's why I appreciated the Cardassians suffered different problems from the Romulans and the Klingons.

[Link8909]

i get having preferences but why do some make such massive deal about the language? Comic book characters were doing herder stuff for years and they were initially conceived for children.

also that info on Janeway is news to me, damn, we were robbed of some quality InsaneWay material.

Honestly I thought it was a missed opportunity not to have Vice Admiral Nechayev come back, but to learn it was meant to be Janeway, yeah that was an even bigger missed opportunity.

I have mixed feelings on the language myself, one the one hand as you said comics and even other medias have been doing it for years despite the age demographic, I've even hear complaints that comics would be so incredible gory and violent (even more so than what we will see later in Star Trek Picard) and yet would censor cursing in those same comics, that it was double standards, and even before Star Trek Picard and Star Trek Discovery there was cursing in Star Trek, Star Trek Beyond and Star Trek Generations for instances had characters say S[RED ALERT]t.

But as you can gather from my own attempted a censoring, I do think it is unnecessary to swear in certain situations, for instance in this episode with Fleet Admiral Clancy, her point would have still been made even with out the swear and it even can be distracting, it feels more it was designed to be a meme than a natural response, and yet in the same episode the workers on Mars were swearing even more not just to seeing F8 kill one of their friends but in idle conversation, that honestly feels more natural to me as someone who has worked in construction for 10 years.

There are points later on in Star Trek Picard where the cursing feels more natural with the context of the scene, and I'm not outright apposed to cursing in general, the tone set in Star Trek Picard allows cursing to be a thing and as I said with the comics it would be even more unnatural if they did attempted to censor themselves with the mature subjected matters in Star Trek Picard, I just ask that the cursing be incorporated when it is natural to curse, and not just because they can.

[Link8909]

The Roman Empire lasted over 500 years, conservatively. Empires can be unstable in the same way that thorium is.

Sure. And in 250 BCE it was "most of Italy". In 117 CE it reached its largest extent, and would subsequently split in half, with both halves going through massive turmoil. Inbetween it would have literal wars fought between Roman generals (Romans, using Roman legions, fighting each other in civil wars and smaller skirmishes), and an entire system of government collapsed completely.

I'd call that "unstable." Even when expansionism works, it's an inherently volatile philosophy. That's why I appreciated the Cardassians suffered different problems from the Romulans and the Klingons.

Indeed, In Star Trek Online the Cardassians have been able to rebuild and become a force of good with only a small group of insurrectionist known as The True Way, the Romulans became so divided in the wake of the destruction of Romulus with Spock's group of unificationists, refugees and others that believed in a better way for Romulans forming the Romulan Republic, and right now the Klingon Empire is in the middle of another civil war.

[MrL1992]

Honestly I thought it was a missed opportunity not to have Vice Admiral Nechayev come back, but to learn it was meant to be Janeway, yeah that was an even bigger missed opportunity.

I have mixed feelings on the language myself, one the one hand as you said comics and even other medias have been doing it for years despite the age demographic, I've even hear complaints that comics would be so incredible gory and violent (even more so than what we will see later in Star Trek Picard) and yet would censor cursing in those same comics, that it was double standards, and even before Star Trek Picard and Star Trek Discovery there was cursing in Star Trek, Star Trek Beyond and Star Trek Generations for instances had characters say S[RED ALERT]t.

But as you can gather from my own attempted a censoring, I do think it is unnecessary to swear in certain situations, for instance in this episode with Fleet Admiral Clancy, her point would have still been made even with out the swear and it even can be distracting, it feels more it was designed to be a meme than a natural response, and yet in the same episode the workers on Mars were swearing even more not just to seeing F8 kill one of their friends but in idle conversation, that honestly feels more natural to me as someone who has worked in construction for 10 years.

There are points later on in Star Trek Picard where the cursing feels more natural with the context of the scene, and I'm not outright apposed to cursing in general, the tone set in Star Trek Picard allows cursing to be a thing and as I said with the comics it would be even more unnatural if they did attempted to censor themselves with the mature subjected matters in Star Trek Picard, I just ask that the cursing be incorporated when it is natural to curse, and not just because they can.

In truth, if I were writing it, I may not have included it but don't see it as some great 'betrayal' of Trek's principles.

[Link8909]

In truth, if I were writing it, I may not have included it but don't see it as some great 'betrayal' of Trek's principles.

Indeed, while I don't think It's a big deal that Star Trek Picard has swearing in it since the series is dealing with mature themes, like you if I was writing I would have not had Fleet Admiral Clancy swear in this particular scene.

[CrypticMirror]

In truth, if I were writing it, I may not have included it but don't see it as some great 'betrayal' of Trek's principles.

Indeed, while I don't think It's a big deal that Star Trek Picard has swearing in it since the series is dealing with mature themes, like you if I was writing I would have not had Fleet Admiral Clancy swear in this particular scene.

It sounded so stilted and forced. It sounded like someone who never swears trying to swear for effect but the only effect it had was making it obvious the person never swears. Instead of making her sound angry it made her sound ridiculous and petulant [and Karen-ish, since it was white lady called on her bullshit and gets upset at being called on her bullshit so tries to project her bullshit back onto the person calling her on that bullshit], and instead of making the show seem mature it had the exact opposite effect. They should have pulled it in the edit.

[GreyICE]

It sounded so stilted and forced. It sounded like someone who never swears trying to swear for effect but the only effect it had was making it obvious the person never swears. Instead of making her sound angry it made her sound ridiculous and petulant [and Karen-ish, since it was white lady called on her bullshit and gets upset at being called on her bullshit so tries to project her bullshit back onto the person calling her on that bullshit], and instead of making the show seem mature it had the exact opposite effect. They should have pulled it in the edit.

Actually I kind of liked that. I don't want a Starfleet Admiral swearing like a salty sea dog. I want it to sound awkward, because it was awkward. It was an amazing full stop in the middle of another speech. There was a big danger of Picard becoming pontification after pontification, and it was just a wonderful full stop.

She was extremely angry, she rarely gets that angry, she had no great way of expressing it. It was awkward, broke a hole in the flow of conversation, and I would say it was meant to.

[Link8909]

Actually I kind of liked that. I don't want a Starfleet Admiral swearing like a salty sea dog. I want it to sound awkward, because it was awkward. It was an amazing full stop in the middle of another speech. There was a big danger of Picard becoming pontification after pontification, and it was just a wonderful full stop.

She was extremely angry, she rarely gets that angry, she had no great way of expressing it. It was awkward, broke a hole in the flow of conversation, and I would say it was meant to.

That's honestly not a bad way to look at it.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

In truth, if I were writing it, I may not have included it but don't see it as some great 'betrayal' of Trek's principles.

Indeed, while I don't think It's a big deal that Star Trek Picard has swearing in it since the series is dealing with mature themes, like you if I was writing I would have not had Fleet Admiral Clancy swear in this particular scene.

It sounded so stilted and forced. It sounded like someone who never swears trying to swear for effect but the only effect it had was making it obvious the person never swears. Instead of making her sound angry it made her sound ridiculous and petulant [and Karen-ish, since it was white lady called on her bullshit and gets upset at being called on her bullshit so tries to project her bullshit back onto the person calling her on that bullshit], and instead of making the show seem mature it had the exact opposite effect. They should have pulled it in the edit.

I still don't know about the "sounding stilted and forced", though. I mean, it's kinda sad to assume, that our society didn't evolve in the next 380 years or so and still fall back on gutter language, when we are angry, but on the other hand: There once was a guy, who said "We will evolve beyond all that" - but then people were moaning, that you cannot write character drama with characters, who have no flaws.

if it would've been for Roddenberry, the episode "The Bonding" would have played out like that:
Picard: "Jeremy, there has been an accident - your mum died."
Jeremy: "Oh."
Picard: But we take care of you.
Jeremy: I understand, Captain Picard and thank you.

Yeah, not that good of a source for personal drama.
But if you want to involve drama in your story, you can't have "highly evolved characters" in it. They need to have flaws - and that includes, but is not limited to: being irrational, being angry and sometimes cursing like there'd be no tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

I still don't know about the "sounding stilted and forced", though. I mean, it's kinda sad to assume, that our society didn't evolve in the next 380 years or so and still fall back on gutter language, when we are angry, but on the other hand: There once was a guy, who said "We will evolve beyond all that" - but then people were moaning, that you cannot write character drama with characters, who have no flaws.

Man, back in Roman times people were swearing with fuck (futuo - amazing how that has survived virtually unchanged). Although the Roman word for clitoris was both more popular and fouler, as the Romans were famous for cursing. They also gave people the middle finger - being the longest, it was likened to a cock, so it was very literally "fuck you". So laugh next time someone tells you the British/French bow story - middle fingers mean "I'm going to shove my cock in your ass", and that predates Britain and France.

Gonna be a long time before we evolve out of that one.