CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:53 pm
If Porthos died, Archer would have been justified enacting General Order 15.
Dogs>Aliens.
Taurian Patriot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:58 pm
(Though I agree that Porthos is worthy of vengeance. I was honestly a little annoyed at the Abrams movie when Scotty makes a crack about testing a long-range transport on Admiral Archer's beagle and it never rematerialized. Make fun of the man, but don't take it out on his dog.)
Agreed, Porthos is a good boi and needs to be protected.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."
MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:51 pmBut the more significant failure was that Archer wasn't interesting; something that even previous captains were able to be.
I decided to do a little exercise right now and think about words and short phrases I could use to describe the Trek captains, just off the top of my head.
Kirk: Daring and assertive, a risk-taker but willing to accept consequences Picard: Philosophical and dignified, wins confrontations with weaponized rhetoric Sisko: Conflicted but adaptable, willing to dirty his hands for the greater good Janeway: Inconsistent (thanks to mediocre writing), but absolutely trying to hold things together in a miserable situation Archer: Petulant
Yeah, "petulant." I can't think of anything that sums him up better. When Archer wasn't making mistakes out of pure stubbornness, he was whining about other people calling out his mistakes or expecting him to correct them. He comes off like a child who thinks he's got the whole world figured out, then blames everything except himself whenever he's proven wrong.
What I'm taking away from this is that "Don't fail" is really bad advice to give to your kids without elaboration or context. With those words as the foundation of his personal philosophy, poor Jonathan Archer had no chance but to fail constantly.
EDIT: Why yes, I did totally forget about the captains on Discovery. No, it wasn't intentional, it just didn't cross my mind until now. I guess Pike gets honorable mention as "Actually feels like a Star Trek character?"
I like the idea that Janeway had PTSD. It would definitely fit with what we saw in the episode with the void.
I really hope that Chuck makes a Janeway video. Actual Janeway, not Parody Janeway.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:13 pm
I really hope that Chuck makes a Janeway video. Actual Janeway, not Parody Janeway.
Both?
The real Janeway. Not the comic book supervillain.
OK, what if starts out with the supervillain as a joke?
"I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking 'Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!'" When I am writing in this font, I am writing in my moderator voice.
Spam-desu
When I look at Archer I see the issues I had with the show.
There was a sense that there was a good man, maybe even a good captain under there. But no one remembered how to write it. And we are hampered by disruptive plot points.
Step one: Throw in some time travel stuff. It sells well. But had not been pre-planned.
Step two: Screw with the vulcans. I never got disrespect from vulcans in previous shows. They would be logical. Aloof sometimes. And basically be straight men. They don't get jokes, kidding around or similar. These vulcans looked down their noses with a sense of superiority on everyone. They made them another antagonist instead of an ally. And to dial that up, Archer had to treat them as antagonists.
Archer fails, because the writers don't know how to get the arguments right. Archer's speech about newborn elk? Antelope? Sorry fell asleep as that one went on. But it was meant to be a Picard speech. A hint of the orator. The try and rescue a stranded ship in a gas giant. Oh yeah, klingons. Who would rather shoot you than say thank you for saving them from dishonorable deaths.
Archer himself said he pushed the Enterprise out of space dock before it was ready. And he did.
But I have to ask. Wasn't he right? The vulcans even as the NX-01 is being readied to launch want humanity to take warp drive all the way back to formula. Basically to before Cochrane had done his test flight. Learn the basics again.
Archer had a good heart to heart with his XO about a pre-warp civilization. He was concerned about helping them with warp drive. They probably have no idea on anti-matter. He looked to his XO for advice and she told him. "We helped a primitive race along. Tried to show them the path as we saw it. And we are still on Earth." You could hear Archer's anxiety snap. The plague cure? That was just another brick in the complexity wall. How far do you help? We helped with this disease. What about the next? We give them this, why not give them warp drives? And everything else. Is it playing God?
And in the end he has two decisions, both bad. Stay and make mistakes all over these people. Or do nothing and possibly doom them. He chose to stay his hand to not make things worse.
I do not hate Captain Archer. I am not impressed by Captain Archer. Honestly I would rather be Picard or Sisko if I had a choice. I think if season five had happened. We would look at the early Enterprise as Season One and Two of TNG or season 3 of TOS. And yeah season one of DS9. The finding the footing. Shedding the baggage that was weighing them down and being Good. And we would find a signature for Archer. Picard had his speeches. Sisko had his fists. Janeway had her determination.
Because who Jonathan Archer was? He was they guy on deck ten who signed up to study comets.
A major problem with Archer is that he immediately put off viewers by making his main problem being his antagonism with the Vulcans and belief they were holding humanity back. "Screw you Elves" is a TV trope because they are sanctimonious and nasty in many other properties if not outright racist like Skyrim.
However, Star Trek is not one of them, that DS9 baseball game besides. Trekkies genuinely think the Vulcans are the nicest race in the universe since the main ones we know are Spock and Sarek. Even when they're mean to each other, they're both solid good guys. It doesn't help that the history paints an ugly picture of Archer with human history going from FALLOUT to MASS EFFECT in 100 years after meeting the Vulcans.
ENTERPRISE tried to argue humans did ALL OF THAT THEMSELVES which kind of undermines the idea that we benefited from meeting other races. Which if we DID means that the Vulcans actually helped us escape our Mad Max hellhole and are our dear friends not our enemies.
So Archer comes off as a disgusting racist.
And, "GRRRR, VULCANS!" is Archer's one defining character trait for two seasons. Oh and dog lover.
