Donald Trump Says He Is Considering Banning TikTok

[GreyICE]

Isn't any ID issued from the DMV a Federal ID? Isn't our SSN a number given to us by the government?

Maybe a free ID solution isn't a big of a problem. Everyone gets a photo ID from the DMV since they are set up that way. Make it issued at 18. Maybe even set it up at high schools. First ID expires at 21. So you get a new one when you can smoke cigarettes and booze. Then 5 years after that.

But if we do that then military issued IDs should be used to allow 18 year Olds to buy smokes and booze but that is just me.

Not really. SSN checks does tell the government you applied for something somewhere, but it's far from turning over all your information. Licenses have your home address. Your biometric information. A picture. Your license plate, often. They're ran by the cops when they pull you over. Pulled from a federal database, now the feds know something about you. They tie every license plate in America to a person, at the federal level - and tied to the road cameras. They tell the federal government when you buy booze, or cigarettes. They tell the federal government if you're registered to vote.

In other words, a wealth of information flows to the feds when it's tied to their database, and you have their word that they're not misusing that to, say, develop software that tracks the position of every person in America in real time using their license plate and photograph from ID. Oh, they're known to be liars about that stuff.

[ProfessorDetective]

Isn't any ID issued from the DMV a Federal ID? Isn't our SSN a number given to us by the government?

Maybe a free ID solution isn't a big of a problem. Everyone gets a photo ID from the DMV since they are set up that way. Make it issued at 18. Maybe even set it up at high schools. First ID expires at 21. So you get a new one when you can smoke cigarettes and booze. Then 5 years after that.

But if we do that then military issued IDs should be used to allow 18 year Olds to buy smokes and booze but that is just me.

Not really. SSN checks does tell the government you applied for something somewhere, but it's far from turning over all your information. Licenses have your home address. Your biometric information. A picture. Your license plate, often. They're ran by the cops when they pull you over. Pulled from a federal database, now the feds know something about you. They tie every license plate in America to a person, at the federal level - and tied to the road cameras. They tell the federal government when you buy booze, or cigarettes. They tell the federal government if you're registered to vote.

In other words, a wealth of information flows to the feds when it's tied to their database, and you have their word that they're not misusing that to, say, develop software that tracks the position of every person in America in real time using their license plate and photograph from ID. Oh, they're known to be liars about that stuff.

1) That comes of as slightly paranoid, but this country doesn't have the best track record, so...

2) Biometrics? What states taking DNA, Fingerprints, and or Retnal Scans when you get your license?

3) Why is the government knowing your home address or the fact you can vote in government elections weird? Also, the road cameras are generally state-run, so...

[GreyICE]

1) That comes of as slightly paranoid, but this country doesn't have the best track record, so...

2) Biometrics? What states taking DNA, Fingerprints, and or Retnal Scans when you get your license?

3) Why is the government knowing your home address or the fact you can vote in government elections weird? Also, the road cameras are generally state-run, so...

I am so tired of telling people things we already know and having them say "that sounds paranoid." It's like "The NSA has a program called ESCHALON that is designed to spy on all communications to or from the united states, but also has access to everything made inside our borders." "Oh, you're being paranoid." "Uh... no, it's been referenced in FOIA documents, it's been funded..."

Snowden leaks everything, shows it's doing all that and more. "Okay, but are you sure it's still happening even though all they did in response was try to arrest Snowden and keep funding the NSA? Certainly Snowden leaked absolutely everything they were doing because he had access to every little bit, and nothing has happened in the 10 years since he leaked it."

*headdesk*

It's like there's some belief that magic somehow kept things frozen where Snowden leaked them, and that somehow one single contractor knew every program and initiative (spoiler: he didn't). Did you consider the gap between the NSA in 2000 and the NSA in 2010 was about the same as the NSA in 2010 and the NSA in 2020? Your information on their capacities is a decade out of date, logically extrapolate. Use some science fiction to inform where things can go, combine it with existing technology (facial recognition, license plate recognition, mass database searching). Remember every time we've seen NSA code in the wild it's been psychotically far in advance of what other places produce - they employ some of the best programming geniuses on the planet. Do you think Google and Amazon are truly blazing a trail they haven't been down? Not for maps and search engines, but for camera data and pattern recognition?


Biometrics - measurements of data about people. Eye color, hair color, height, weight, age, photo. All identifying information. Put enough pieces together, the computer goes "ding we have a match." The more data they have, the easier it is to find a unique match. Just math.


As for road cameras not sending information to the NSA... you sure about that?

[Riedquat]

There's nothing paranoid about not wanting everythinng you do recorded. There's nothing paranoid about not wanting to be effectively branded and tagged and labelled to do anything - yes, without that some people slip through when it comes to age-related matters, but that's the lesser evil. Even if you firmly believe none of that information will be misused the very idea is pretty repellent to some of us (and please have the decency not to go "why?", a response that just illustrates an inability to understand points of view other than your own).

[ProfessorDetective]

How far off the grid do y'all live if you're somehow trying to avoid stuff like this? You CAN'T these days, unless you go full hunting-gathering mountain man.

And what's the difference between a State ID and a Fed ID then? What's stopping... I don't know, Idaho, from pulling ALL OF THIS in microcosm?

I ain't saying you're unjustified, our Gov't has done some mad stuff for its own ends, but if a ID PHOTO of you being on record is enough to scare you... Well, I hope you don't drive, are self-employed, only accept cash transactions, and wear a face mask with mirrored sunglasses whenever you leave the house... Or have gone full mountain man... That's how much you CAN'T WIN with this stuff anymore, sorry to say.

Oh, and you might want to look up 'gait recognition' and 'ear prints'. Yeah...

[clearspira]

The time to stop the government Big Brothering your ass was back around 1990, not now. And y'know what? We let it happen. There were warnings. There have always been warnings. But human beings will always choose convenience other security. Why do you think people jaywalk 50 feet from a crossing?

[Madner Kami]

I ain't saying you're unjustified, our Gov't has done some mad stuff for its own ends, but if a ID PHOTO of you being on record is enough to scare you... Well, I hope you don't drive, are self-employed, only accept cash transactions, and wear a face mask with mirrored sunglasses whenever you leave the house... Or have gone full mountain man... That's how much you CAN'T WIN with this stuff anymore, sorry to say.

Oh, and you might want to look up 'gait recognition' and 'ear prints'. Yeah...

True especially once you consider how often above complainers post links to Twitter and Facebook

[GreyICE]

How far off the grid do y'all live if you're somehow trying to avoid stuff like this? You CAN'T these days, unless you go full hunting-gathering mountain man.

And what's the difference between a State ID and a Fed ID then? What's stopping... I don't know, Idaho, from pulling ALL OF THIS in microcosm?

I don't know, something like this:


See how the Federal Government has that and the state of Idaho doesn't?

The more local things are, the less power the government has to abuse.

I ain't saying you're unjustified, our Gov't has done some mad stuff for its own ends, but if a ID PHOTO of you being on record is enough to scare you... Well, I hope you don't drive, are self-employed, only accept cash transactions, and wear a face mask with mirrored sunglasses whenever you leave the house... Or have gone full mountain man... That's how much you CAN'T WIN with this stuff anymore, sorry to say.

Oh, and you might want to look up 'gait recognition' and 'ear prints'. Yeah...

"If you want to reform the police, your only option is to get rid of them completely and live without them or do absolutely nothing to change them!"

Yeah, this is shitty stupid bad logic. False dichotomies are dumb. You can make things harder for the NSA. You can compartmentalize. This has many advantages:

- You can detect abuses easier. If everything flows to one coordinated location, that's all you need. If everything flows to 50 different locations, that's 50 different windows we have into what you're doing.
- Things take longer. Period. The data will be in 50 formats, the information will be stored 50 ways. That just adds lag
- Imperfections are exactly what ruin pattern recognition. The more you introduce, the harder it is to pull off.

Delay gives us more time to get in front of this with legislation, with management, with bringing these agencies under control and opening them up so we understand what they are doing and can stop their abuses of power.

What I see is a person who doesn't want to think about it, so is spouting hyperbole. That's not productive.

[ProfessorDetective]

How far off the grid do y'all live if you're somehow trying to avoid stuff like this? You CAN'T these days, unless you go full hunting-gathering mountain man.

And what's the difference between a State ID and a Fed ID then? What's stopping... I don't know, Idaho, from pulling ALL OF THIS in microcosm?

I don't know, something like this:


See how the Federal Government has that and the state of Idaho doesn't?

The more local things are, the less power the government has to abuse.

I ain't saying you're unjustified, our Gov't has done some mad stuff for its own ends, but if a ID PHOTO of you being on record is enough to scare you... Well, I hope you don't drive, are self-employed, only accept cash transactions, and wear a face mask with mirrored sunglasses whenever you leave the house... Or have gone full mountain man... That's how much you CAN'T WIN with this stuff anymore, sorry to say.

Oh, and you might want to look up 'gait recognition' and 'ear prints'. Yeah...

"If you want to reform the police, your only option is to get rid of them completely and live without them or do absolutely nothing to change them!"

Yeah, this is shitty stupid bad logic. False dichotomies are dumb. You can make things harder for the NSA. You can compartmentalize. This has many advantages:

- You can detect abuses easier. If everything flows to one coordinated location, that's all you need. If everything flows to 50 different locations, that's 50 different windows we have into what you're doing.
- Things take longer. Period. The data will be in 50 formats, the information will be stored 50 ways. That just adds lag
- Imperfections are exactly what ruin pattern recognition. The more you introduce, the harder it is to pull off.

Delay gives us more time to get in front of this with legislation, with management, with bringing these agencies under control and opening them up so we understand what they are doing and can stop their abuses of power.

What I see is a person who doesn't want to think about it, so is spouting hyperbole. That's not productive.

All I wanted was to give people a free passport card to curb the 'voter fraud' conspiracies, allow folks to apply for work more easily, and finally faze out the 'SSI as ID' stopgap. Frick.

[McAvoy]

Let's assume that they require photo IDs now to vote. Let's assume of course that the government agencies involved are more efficient than they normally are. Everyone who is a citizen has an ID now.

So now your vote is tied to your ID now. They now know you voted, and not far fetched, who you voted for too.

When will we start hearing about voter ID fraud as an excuse?