Star Trek changing direction

[CharlesPhipps]

I'm more just glad they have a simple answer for why these people don't exist except in the show. Discovery got away with two seasons with the universe at stake, just try not to bring any more attention to yourself with more alien races and intimate relationships.

To Boldly Go should be a great show considering TOS is remarkable more as an adventure show rather than a political one. There's a lot of room between the TNG/DS9 format and the dangerous species of the week format, especially with how they made Pike have somewhat lofty principles compared to Kirk. I believe the original casting of Jefferey Hunter had to do with him being a more expected Sci-Fi lead, but I may be mistaken.

Um, what's political about DISCO? It's the least political of all Star Trek shows. I can't recall any "message" shows about it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm more just glad they have a simple answer for why these people don't exist except in the show. Discovery got away with two seasons with the universe at stake, just try not to bring any more attention to yourself with more alien races and intimate relationships.

To Boldly Go should be a great show considering TOS is remarkable more as an adventure show rather than a political one. There's a lot of room between the TNG/DS9 format and the dangerous species of the week format, especially with how they made Pike have somewhat lofty principles compared to Kirk. I believe the original casting of Jefferey Hunter had to do with him being a more expected Sci-Fi lead, but I may be mistaken.

Um, what's political about DISCO? It's the least political of all Star Trek shows. I can't recall any "message" shows about it.

It was a bit institutional as far as following what's going on. You're right though that it isn't that dry on diplomacy etc..

[CmdrKing]

Disco certainly has the state of the world and political issues on its mind, but due to serialization it lacks the concrete Message Episodes or clear messaging in general so it's dicey whether or not it has anything *specific* to say about the state of the world and politics.

Like, the fact the Federation is so unprepared and flatfooted going into the Klingon war in season 1 that a mirror universe double is able to slip into not only the captain's chair of the titular ship but clearly has the ear of the admiralty speaks to how willing they were to embrace the worst of human nature in their desperation, which is definitely something with lots of potential application to 21st century American politics. But considering Lorca's ultimate fate seems to instead be in service of the season's overarching theme of second chances (in his case, he threw one away and died for it), how much we're supposed to take from that set of facts is hard to say, y'know?

[GreyICE]

I just can't get over the fact we're supposed to take seriously the evil universe where everyone has goatees and it's actually now canonically darker than our main universe (like actually darker, humans from there are light sensitive here). It's a comic book plotline where we'd be supposed to be laughing at the shenanigans that, I dunno, Evil Peter Parker was doing and how he'd framed 616 Peter for all this awful stuff. We'd get a panel of him shielding his eyes when Mary Jane turned on a reading lamp with a caption like *Argh, the light in this universe is so strong. I can't let this woman see how an ordinary reading light affects me* and a terrible dialogue bubble like "Mary I just remembered I my Aunt wants me to water the garden before supper" and Mary thinking *Boy Peter is acting weird recently*

I can't do a sensible analysis of a character that comes from the Darkverse. Like he's there. It assassinated all character development. Make the Darkverse Dark Again. Yay.

[CharlesPhipps]

I just can't get over the fact we're supposed to take seriously the evil universe where everyone has goatees and it's actually now canonically darker than our main universe (like actually darker, humans from there are light sensitive here). It's a comic book plotline where we'd be supposed to be laughing at the shenanigans that, I dunno, Evil Peter Parker was doing and how he'd framed 616 Peter for all this awful stuff. We'd get a panel of him shielding his eyes when Mary Jane turned on a reading lamp with a caption like *Argh, the light in this universe is so strong. I can't let this woman see how an ordinary reading light affects me* and a terrible dialogue bubble like "Mary I just remembered I my Aunt wants me to water the garden before supper" and Mary thinking *Boy Peter is acting weird recently*

I can't do a sensible analysis of a character that comes from the Darkverse. Like he's there. It assassinated all character development. Make the Darkverse Dark Again. Yay.

Humans are clearly light sensitive due to the fact they're all Augments for nightvision.

TREKCANON.

[CharlesPhipps]

https://m.imdb.com/list/ls081999010/

Picard has been voted number 7th of the Top Ten New Series of 2020 by IMDB Ratings.4

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Disco certainly has the state of the world and political issues on its mind, but due to serialization it lacks the concrete Message Episodes or clear messaging in general so it's dicey whether or not it has anything *specific* to say about the state of the world and politics.

Like, the fact the Federation is so unprepared and flatfooted going into the Klingon war in season 1 that a mirror universe double is able to slip into not only the captain's chair of the titular ship but clearly has the ear of the admiralty speaks to how willing they were to embrace the worst of human nature in their desperation, which is definitely something with lots of potential application to 21st century American politics. But considering Lorca's ultimate fate seems to instead be in service of the season's overarching theme of second chances (in his case, he threw one away and died for it), how much we're supposed to take from that set of facts is hard to say, y'know?

I said in another thread that they were actually doing okay with his sideways character, and that the MU twist with him was a good idea, but that those two facets don't really gel. It was like a twist of the twist itself.

But yeah the whole science experiment and the drama with him and the admiral is consistent with what what I meant by institutional.

[Link8909]

I just can't get over the fact we're supposed to take seriously the evil universe where everyone has goatees and it's actually now canonically darker than our main universe (like actually darker, humans from there are light sensitive here). It's a comic book plotline where we'd be supposed to be laughing at the shenanigans that, I dunno, Evil Peter Parker was doing and how he'd framed 616 Peter for all this awful stuff. We'd get a panel of him shielding his eyes when Mary Jane turned on a reading lamp with a caption like *Argh, the light in this universe is so strong. I can't let this woman see how an ordinary reading light affects me* and a terrible dialogue bubble like "Mary I just remembered I my Aunt wants me to water the garden before supper" and Mary thinking *Boy Peter is acting weird recently*

I can't do a sensible analysis of a character that comes from the Darkverse. Like he's there. It assassinated all character development. Make the Darkverse Dark Again. Yay.

Personally. while I agree that the sensitive to light thing is goofy and was only there to be the final piece to Lorca's true nature, I'm glad the the Mirror Universe was taken seriously in Discovery like in the past with both The Original Series episode "Mirror Mirror" and the multiple Deep Space Nine episodes, that this universe is the antithesis to the Star Trek universe.

I personally think the Enterprise two parter "In A Mirror Darkly" did more harm to the credibility of what makes the Mirror Universe a frightening concept, while it had the trademark evilness of the Mirror Universe, because it was an isolated two parter from the regular series, and the incorporation of elements like The Original Series Constitution-Class, a Gorn and Tholians, with some hammy acting, and the general mentality that this was a fun distraction from the regular series with no real consequences, and the Mirror Universe goes from this terrifying idea that in another reality you could be this monster to bordering on Saturday Morning Cartoon Villainy.

And as Chuck talked about in his "Arena" review, The Original Series has suffered this kind of treatment, unfortunately because of general pop-culture osmosis, The Original Series itself is more remembered as "the campy Star Trek" that "Star Trek is this fun, happy-go-lucky show", forgetting that while there were fun episodes like "The Trouble With Tribbles", there were plenty of really Dark episodes that would give Discovery and Picard a run for its money, episodes like "The City on the Edge of Forever", "Balance of Terror", "Mirror Mirror", "A Taste of Armageddon" "A Private Little War", and the mentioned "Arena" just to name a few, even if the episodes are more light hearted like "A Piece of the Action" the series had an edge to it, the fact that people would died regularly in each episode is enough fact to that.

Also personally, I really like Lorca being revealed that he's a Terran, while I like the idea of a Captain suffering with PTSD but not willing to let go of command, I thought that Lorca himself was too manipulative to have this be sympathetic, while his reveal not only give the series a great re-watch value, but is a great reversal on the original "Mirror Mirror" episode, and I really like Chuck's comparisons to Macbeth.

Also with the hints dropped throughout the series, there's one I think is brilliant, it's in the episode "Lethe", Admiral Cornwell is in bed with Lorca, and as he sleeps she touches a scar on his back. and on instinct, Lorca jumps and holds a phaser to her, and because of the design of the Phaser you can see it was set to kill, at first people would think that this is part of the supposed PTSD, but then I thought about it, why would a Starfleet Captain have their Phaser set to kill under their pillow in there own quarters, even in wartime isn't this meant to be a save place with early warning systems? and then I realised that it would be someone who would be expecting anyone, even their own crew, to be trying to kill them at any time, like someone from the Mirror Universe would, plus I like that creepy shot at the end of "Choose Your Pain" with Stamets's reflection looking back at the real Lieutenant Stamets walk away.

And while the Mycelial Network is crazy science, there is a consistancy to it that one can reasonable say Lorca could return, in the episode "Saints of Imperfection" when May was talking about the monster, I first thought it was going to be Lorca.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Star Trek is like the once removed cousin of comic books.

[CharlesPhipps]

I feel Star Trek's political reception is often in how you receive its lesson.

Example:

Friend: I hate StarTrek Into Darkness because it's the Star Trek version of a 9/11 truther conspiracy.

Me: I thought it was the Star Trek's version of the War in Iraq. Marcus blaming the Klingons for Khan.

Friend: Wow, that actually makes me hate it less.