Star Trek changing direction

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CaptainCalvinCat
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

Post by CaptainCalvinCat »

Madner Kami wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am Not liking them or not watching them is one thing. It is quite another to pretend that they are something and condemn them for it, which they are not, just because the only thing you watched is in a format you dislike. You're making the exact same mistake that Shatner was making.
So, RLM are not two assholes, sitting around, talking in funny voices and say, towards people, that don't like their content to fuck off, as seen in the Episode-One-Review?
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:24 pm
I get what you mean, I still think Star Trek Picard is fantastic, I do agree that the killing off some characters was a mistake, while I wasn't attached to Icheb, and I see what they were going for, and the scene itself was well acted and the a effects well done, it still was an unnecessary death only to motivate Seven, and ultimately was a senseless death, Hugh was better because he died saving the XB's and could become a martyr figure for future stories, the only deaths I do like in Star Trek Picard is with both Data and Picard himself, they were both done very tastefully, with Picard I love his sacrifice and resurrection, and it was nice to finally and properly say goodbye to Data, his final moments of him growing older and looking at his former Captain while "Blue Skies" played was beautiful and brought tears to my eyes.

I do hope however that deaths like those don't become a trend in Star Trek Picard, and that we see more reoccurring characters that are doing well for themselves without unnecessary tragedy striking them.
When Picard does do deaths well, it delivers. I concur on that, the scenes were Picard died and where Data did the same thing, brought tears to my eyes.
When the show just kills people out of shock value (Hugh, Maddox) or because they need something to motivate someone else (Icheb), it is... erm.... yeah, not done that well.

Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
I'm really looking forward to Strange New Worlds and I personally don't thing it being a prequel is a problem, most of the things Captain Kirk and the USS Enterprise discovers in The Original Series aren't really brought up again in future, so I'd love to see Captain Pike's Five Year Mission to be just as extortionary as Kirk's, and from interviews it looks like they're running with the fact that Pike knows his fate, so its not only the audience that know what will happen to Pike, and it will be interesting to see that play out, I'm also looking forward to seeing a younger Spock, fleshing out Number One and the rest of the USS Enterprise crew of that time, it's honestly great that we are getting the Star Trek series that could have been from the very start.
I see were you're coming from and I'm saying "Meh, when it is done well, it is done well."
My concern lies with the hardcore-fans, who will say "But they are not supposed to know that for a couple of centuries" or whatever the hell they were moaning about in Enterprise.
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
While I've only seen the first episode of Lower Decks and can't watch anymore because I'm stuck in England, I already love it, I do get the comparisons to Rick and Morty (which I have a love/hate relationship with), and while I don't normally compare different series to one-another to see which is better, I'd actually say based on what I've seen, Lower Decks is a better version of Rick and Morty, not only does the series have the crazy Sci-Fi elements that I enjoy, but unlike Rick and Morty, all the characters in Lower Decks are all very likeable and enjoyable to watch, they're all just good people.
So no jokes about bodily fluids in this one?
Because I did some reading concerning Rick and Morty and apparently there is one guy with an unhealthy obsession with his own shit. As long as disgusting stuff like that doesn't happen on Lower Decks I might give it a chance, when we get it on Blu Ray

Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
I do agree that Picard will properly not be exploring deep space anytime soon, I'm ok with that as I feel it's focus should be on character-drama and political intrigue, I'd honestly wager that with Season 2 they'll be focused on either Romulan or more Android Shenanigans.
Yeah, it'd be more like "We have to deal with the fallout of Picard now being an android" - so it still will probably get a very sombre tone.
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm I've not seen Andromeda so I'll be going into Season 3 of Discovery oblivious to any comparisons, but this is still new ground for the franchise to tread and it'll be exciting to see what's instore.
Oh, I didn't mean, that Season 3 is going to be an Andromeda Rip off, I just meant that the tone might be the same. Actually, I kinda hope that, because although it was quite an apocalyptic show, with the Commonwealth being gone and all, they always found the possibility of infusing humour in it.
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
Honestly, Star Trek Prodigy and Star Trek Section 31 are the two series I'm not sure on, with Prodigy there's simply not enough information to have an opinion on, and I personally think Section 31 works as a foil to the heroes rather than being the heroes for lack of a better term, there is potential for the series but again their isn't enough information yet.
I'd say "Section 31" might work as a "James Bond"- or "Agents of SHIELD" version of Trek. I'm kinda on board with that.
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:55 pm
I really don't like when people act like their opinion is the "correct" one, that make you feel bad for liking a piece of media, and will even mock and harass people for that as well as the creators of said media, it's ok to have an opinion, it's another thing to be a prick about it.
Oh yeah, in especially the Nostalgia Critic was guilty of that and in the "Episode One"-Review, I only could watch 10 minutes of, the asshats of RLM sat there and basically told people, who didn't like their latest review to fuck off. Not very nice of them.

Same with a guy, who did his reviews on "the agony booth" and is rightfully forgotten now - Solkir, then Sybil Pandemic (which is an interesting name in these days)- s/he did a review on the complete run of the Birds of Prey series and . *ugh* - I mean, you can point out, that you don't like plotpoints of said episode, but when someone (in that case: me) says "hey, it's not like that at all", that guy calls you out on stuff, you're teasing in this episode, will be a factor in the next episode, you don't tweet stuff like "Things only assholes do - talk about your talkingpoints earlier". or something like that.

Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:06 pm Absolutely, and this has been my own mentality, if I don't like something I don't go out of my way to watch it, you won't hear me complaining about Sonic the Hedgehog (2020) or Cats because I've never seen them and don't plan to, and even if I didn't like something that I watched like Star Trek Enterprise, I'll say my piece when it's a topic of discussion, but not all the time at nauseum.
Quite good idea.
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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Madner Kami wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am Not liking them or not watching them is one thing. It is quite another to pretend that they are something and condemn them for it, which they are not, just because the only thing you watched is in a format you dislike. You're making the exact same mistake that Shatner was making.
You are right, and I should be more clear that what I personally don't like are the Plinkett Reviews and not Red Letter Media as a whole, I did try to watch their other material like Half in a Bag but I just wasn't interested.
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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CaptainCalvinCat wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:07 pm
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
While I've only seen the first episode of Lower Decks and can't watch anymore because I'm stuck in England, I already love it, I do get the comparisons to Rick and Morty (which I have a love/hate relationship with), and while I don't normally compare different series to one-another to see which is better, I'd actually say based on what I've seen, Lower Decks is a better version of Rick and Morty, not only does the series have the crazy Sci-Fi elements that I enjoy, but unlike Rick and Morty, all the characters in Lower Decks are all very likeable and enjoyable to watch, they're all just good people.
So no jokes about bodily fluids in this one?
Because I did some reading concerning Rick and Morty and apparently there is one guy with an unhealthy obsession with his own shit. As long as disgusting stuff like that doesn't happen on Lower Decks I might give it a chance, when we get it on Blu Ray
Going by the first episode, I wouldn't say it has bodily fluids, it's has bits of gross out humor, but no where near as bad or disgusting as Rick and Morty, in the episode Ensign Mariner accidently slices Ensign Boimler's leg with a bat'leth, Boimler gets suckled by a giant alien spider (don't worry, it's a herbivore, he was fine), and Ensign Tendi gets to hold a heart, I personally didn't mind those bits, but that's just me and those bits might be too much for you.

And while I've heard the comparisons to Rick and Morty, I'd say Lower Decks is very much like and adult version of Gravity Falls, similar kind of crazy Sci-Fi and even danger (there's a B-Plot involving a zombie plague outbreak on the USS Cerritos).
Last edited by Link8909 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."

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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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Yes, the heart of Rick and Morty is that they're awful people full of emptiness.

The heart of Lower Decks is they're a bunch of good hearted people eager to science the shit out of things.

So much more Gravity Falls than Rick and Morty.
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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CaptainCalvinCat wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:07 pm
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm I've not seen Andromeda so I'll be going into Season 3 of Discovery oblivious to any comparisons, but this is still new ground for the franchise to tread and it'll be exciting to see what's instore.
Oh, I didn't mean, that Season 3 is going to be an Andromeda Rip off, I just meant that the tone might be the same. Actually, I kinda hope that, because although it was quite an apocalyptic show, with the Commonwealth being gone and all, they always found the possibility of infusing humour in it.
Ah, no problem, I've heard people make this comparison already.

Going by the trailer, it looks like while the Federation is in shambles, it's not going to be completely bleak.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."

- Jean-Luc Picard
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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CharlesPhipps wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:13 pm Yes, the heart of Rick and Morty is that they're awful people full of emptiness.

The heart of Lower Decks is they're a bunch of good hearted people eager to science the shit out of things.

So much more Gravity Falls than Rick and Morty.
Indeed, that is my personal problem with Rick and Morty, while I like the crazy Sci-fi, the characters range from unlikeable to outright terrible, Rick especially is just the worst, constantly doing terrible things and getting away with it, and the universe constantly bends to his will to make him right.

Renegade Cut did a video on Rick, and I pretty much agree with his points.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."

- Jean-Luc Picard
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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CaptainCalvinCat wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:07 pm
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
Honestly, Star Trek Prodigy and Star Trek Section 31 are the two series I'm not sure on, with Prodigy there's simply not enough information to have an opinion on, and I personally think Section 31 works as a foil to the heroes rather than being the heroes for lack of a better term, there is potential for the series but again their isn't enough information yet.
I'd say "Section 31" might work as a "James Bond"- or "Agents of SHIELD" version of Trek. I'm kinda on board with that.
A Star Trek spy series does sound good, I'm not outright against Star Trek Section 31 as there is a lot of potential with telling stories from their perspective.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."

- Jean-Luc Picard
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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CaptainCalvinCat wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:07 pm
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:24 pm
I get what you mean, I still think Star Trek Picard is fantastic, I do agree that the killing off some characters was a mistake, while I wasn't attached to Icheb, and I see what they were going for, and the scene itself was well acted and the a effects well done, it still was an unnecessary death only to motivate Seven, and ultimately was a senseless death, Hugh was better because he died saving the XB's and could become a martyr figure for future stories, the only deaths I do like in Star Trek Picard is with both Data and Picard himself, they were both done very tastefully, with Picard I love his sacrifice and resurrection, and it was nice to finally and properly say goodbye to Data, his final moments of him growing older and looking at his former Captain while "Blue Skies" played was beautiful and brought tears to my eyes.

I do hope however that deaths like those don't become a trend in Star Trek Picard, and that we see more reoccurring characters that are doing well for themselves without unnecessary tragedy striking them.
When Picard does do deaths well, it delivers. I concur on that, the scenes were Picard died and where Data did the same thing, brought tears to my eyes.
When the show just kills people out of shock value (Hugh, Maddox) or because they need something to motivate someone else (Icheb), it is... erm.... yeah, not done that well.

Indeed, Icheb's death was the one big thing I really didn't like in Star Trek Picard, not because it was dark or anything, but as you say it was robbing him of any future development and done at best to facilitate Seven's character arc, and at worst for shock value, it's the same problem I had with Tasha Yar's first death.
CaptainCalvinCat wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:07 pm
Link8909 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:56 pm
I do agree that Picard will properly not be exploring deep space anytime soon, I'm ok with that as I feel it's focus should be on character-drama and political intrigue, I'd honestly wager that with Season 2 they'll be focused on either Romulan or more Android Shenanigans.
Yeah, it'd be more like "We have to deal with the fallout of Picard now being an android" - so it still will probably get a very sombre tone.
Definitely, I really want a scene of Picard looking at his dead body, that would be an interesting scene to say the least.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."

- Jean-Luc Picard
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CharlesPhipps
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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Ichebs' death is almost certainly because the original actor mocked Anthony Rapp's claims of sexual assault.

That struck me as a "And suddenly Supergirl's dad is murdered."
CaptainCalvinCat
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Re: Star Trek changing direction

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CharlesPhipps wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:01 pm Ichebs' death is almost certainly because the original actor mocked Anthony Rapp's claims of sexual assault.

That struck me as a "And suddenly Supergirl's dad is murdered."
What did Dean Cain do?
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