Angels Take Manhattan (DW)

[Dînadan]

...Fuck. I hated "The End of Time".

You and me both!

Thirded; sub-par episode and a terrible way to go for the Tenth Doctor.

[Rocketboy1313]

The part when he says, "I don't want to go." Pissed me off SO MUCH.
I hate when a heroic character can't face death with dignity.

Compare to another thinking man's superhero, Blue Beetle, who remains defiant to the end.

[Dînadan]

I think Day of the Doctor salvaged that line somewhat as (because of how that line is echoed in that episode) it means we can pretend he remembered being told about Trenzalore in that brief moment before regenerating and was on about that rather than complaint about dying. Still an undignified way to go.

[MadAmosMalone]

I know it's not Chuck but Diamanda Hagan did a fantastic review of that episode. Lemme see if I can find the whole thing.

*searches*

https://youtu.be/Tsga-54cYJM
and
https://youtu.be/bVSBK1Ad2jI

[Durandal_1707]

^ Holy God, that review's as long as the episode itself.

[Rocketboy1313]

I saw the Hagen review and it was so intensive it convinced me to not bother writing my own blog about why I hated the episode.

[MadAmosMalone]

Yeah she goes into exhaustive detail but her reviews are often pretty funny. IIRC she actually credits Chuck as the inspiration for her starting her own channel and she promotes Chuck every chance she gets.

[Maximara]

Some of the ideas of the episode were fine, but it was a little too tied up in Moffatt's personal points and reaally relied on certain conceits to really gel.
-once you know history you're a part of that history and thats a fixed timeline... and this includes books written by a trusted source.
-even the Doctor doesn't muck with fixed points because that blows up the universe, as seen with the entire "11 must get shot on the beach and die" thing.
-angels can inhabit anything that shows them?

The whole "once you know history you're a part of that history and thats a fixed timeline" is total BS as shown by stories like "Day of the Daleks" and "Pyramid of Mars". In fact, "Pyramid of Mars" shows the Doctors is spouting nonsense in "Angels Take Manhattan":

SARAH: Well now we are here, why don't you tune up 1980 and we can, well, leave.
DOCTOR: I can't.
SARAH: Ah. Why can't you?
DOCTOR: Because if Sutekh isn't stopped, he'll destroy the world.
SARAH: But he didn't, did he. I mean, we know the world didn't end in 1911.
DOCTOR: Do we?
SARAH: Yes, of course we do!
DOCTOR: All right. If we leave now, let's see what the world will look like in 1980.
(The Doctor works the console.)
LAURENCE: I say, this is like something by that novelist chap, Mister Wells.
(The Tardis lands, and the doors open to show a bleak, rocky landscape with howling winds and an electrical storm.)
DOCTOR: 1980, Sarah, if you want to get off.
(Sarah doesn't, and the doors close.)
SARAH: It's a trick!
DOCTOR: No. That's the world as Sutekh would leave it. A desolate planet circling a dead sun.
SARAH: It can't be! I'm from 1980.
DOCTOR: Every point in time has its alternative, Sarah. You've looked into alternative time.

In fact, many events the Doctor witnessed in the future (which were history from the point he was in) did not happen ("Tenth Planet" happened in 1986)

Moreover even events of the "present" that Sarah told the Doctor of (such as the test and disappearance of XK-5 space freighter) don't seem to have happened. Finally, if we consider the books canon then this claim is thrown out the window as abandonment of the Mary Celeste has at least three different causes.

I should mention that since the Doctor personally met the Valeyard then his becoming the Valeyard has become a fixed point in time.

[Rocketboy1313]

Maximara, I don't see the contradiction.

Especially when you throw in the quirk that Smith's Doctor tends to under explain things via analogy, "It's nothing like that, but if that helps."

[Killerbee256]

I had never seen this episode before, but it bugs me a lot. The statue of liberty being a weeping angle is incredible stupid, but what bugs more is the way they treat time. In this episode time is fixed if you know the future your doomed to it. But yet in the 9 doctor episodes counter act this, first of all Father's Day, which says you can change what you know but the time bat things attack. Two in that the season the 4th great and bountiful human empire way being held back by dalek manipulation. But if you follows the rules according to Angles take Manhattan this shouldn't be possible since the doctor knew how the human empire was before the change. Of course it could be the Daleks allowing the changes in history. Can you tell I've not watched doctor who for ages?