Star Trek changing direction

[Link8909]

Know what would be interesting? Shift less from the all too easy, and dare I say, lazy dystopian trends that we've been going through lately. I feel we're stuck in a rut, and the mass-market nostalgia craze and perfect archiving now ensures, IMO at least, we have no cultural identity of our own. We are too ingrained into the past, and too many marks to hit that keep us from striving to new heights that stay in the realm of pop culture whispers for decades if not longer. Modern business practices are just the easy tools that keeps new art from flourishing and enduring past the release date.

What would be interesting is shift less from the... grim hole the future has become, and try and shift to something more positive in the classic ST ideal. We've seen some of the fallout from the Dominion war, the explosion of Romulus's sun (and STP even improved on the plot hole there, so thanks, STP!), and TBH, I can buy after one of the bloodiest wars in galactic history, how there's deep social unrest. I do get it! (I think the execution is poor, but the potential is real.) Now what's needed, if the brand is to have any hope at a successful revival akin to the old, is to show the better angels of human nature shining through, pulling together, resisting the darkness. And I want more timeless political messages, not those rooted in the problems of the present. While those can be done, I think they need subtlety that frankly, I don't trust modern corporate makers to be able to replicate. Focus on more general human themes that will let both sides of the aisle approach it on their terms.

It would be fascinating to see where the UFP could end up in this dark period, and I personally think what is the best idea is threats of secession, member worlds wanting to break away, kinda like Tasha Yar's home planet, or what we saw on Mars, even plans they had for DS9, and this means going around giving Picard Speeches to planets, why unity is so important, and while there could be conflicts here, it'd also give a chance to break the mold and show instances where a larger-scale problem is avoided, and always with the meta-story being the prevention of civil war, that almost was in DS9. It'd be too easy to actually show the civil war, which is where I think they are headed, sadly. And, hey! If STD is going into the future then maybe show the results there. How it reshaped the UFP into something nobler than it was.

Now, what is needed from STP is this. From a management standpoint, limit Sir Patrick Stewart's creative role on the show. He can get into the nuts and bolts of what makes Picard tick, but he also has severe drawbacks that I think get in the way of what fans loved about the series. In-verse, they need to bring back the TNG crew. Those that survived, anyway. Show where they are now. It's so silly that they didn't do that in STP. "We need to put a together crew to face this situation together!" Oh, so, you never thought to ask the others? Bring them back, and use them. Rewatch the show. Get into their psyche. An STD/STP crossover can be great, especially if like on B5, they mapped the story out beforehand. But that's beyond the current crop of writers, I think. Okay. At least use the time travel wisely. And heresy it might be, connect to ENT. Bring back Daniels... is the actor dead? If he is, then this might not be possible... and connect that to the Relativity. You could do so much here, and maybe even give more depth to the failed temporal cold war. This would be how I'd do it.

And... TBH, I don't think they will? But this would be interesting nevertheless. Oh well.

I pretty much agree here, while I do love Star Trek Picard, and I feel its message of not giving into fear and prejudice is well executed, and like you said It makes sense in-universe the Federation and the Star Trek universe as a whole going the way it does in Star Trek Picard.

But I don't want the entire series to be doom and gloom, I'm fine with delving into political ideas and heavy topics, as long as there is light at the end with a positive message, which I feel Season 1 did have but took awhile to get there.

I think now with the main cast all set up there's room now to explore more of this new era in Season 2, show more of the impact the supernova left on the Romulans, show how other factions are doing like the Klingons or Cardassians, and even see how the rest of The Next Generation crew are doing, I was fine with them not all coming back right away, but it would be nice to revisit them.

[Link8909]

The Pike show I think is supposed to be like TOS.

I'm really looking forward to Strange New Worlds, and I hope it lives up to its title, I want to see some really alien worlds and ideas, something along the lines of The Animated Series.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The Pike show I think is supposed to be like TOS.

I'm really looking forward to Strange New Worlds, and I hope it lives up to its title, I want to see some really alien worlds and ideas, something along the lines of The Animated Series.

I can understand how you shouldn't just ditch modernism in favor of a game of Stratego played out on screen. I mean hell, DS9 is good, but you have to admit that it's pretty thick for the average viewer.

[Captain Crimson]

Another thing I'd like. I know that ST has always been fast and loose with continuity, even going back to the TNG days, when that was the only sequel series ever, but I feel like they need to at least try to adhere to it, to an extent. So that any deviations are retcons, ones you choose. It's not even that hard. Just read through each episode and movie summary on MA. Treat those as C Canon, like from the old SW EU, and treat the books, video games, and TAS, if you wanna go with them, as S Canon, also from the old SW EU. I'd be fine with retcons if I didn't get the impression it's because the writers were accidentally blundering into them, not deliberately as creative license, that they are ignorant to the depth of the lore, and can only grasp the broader aspects - you know, that even Mr. Abrams was able to hit, Mr. Pine's Kirk is a ladies man, beds green women, fights people? Because we all know what happens when you only hit the broad notes, and don't reach to the substance, the layer beneath it.

READ. Don't skim. As someone like Mr. Filoni over in the SW fandom gives me the impression of skimming the lore rather than patiently absorbing it, which yields mixed results. And reading, it seems is just too much effort for our modern crop of Ritalin-fueled pot-smoking hippie artists.

[Thebestoftherest]

Another thing I'd like. I know that ST has always been fast and loose with continuity, even going back to the TNG days, when that was the only sequel series ever, but I feel like they need to at least try to adhere to it, to an extent. So that any deviations are retcons, ones you choose. It's not even that hard. Just read through each episode and movie summary on MA. Treat those as C Canon, like from the old SW EU, and treat the books, video games, and TAS, if you wanna go with them, as S Canon, also from the old SW EU. I'd be fine with retcons if I didn't get the impression it's because the writers were accidentally blundering into them, not deliberately as creative license, that they are ignorant to the depth of the lore, and can only grasp the broader aspects - you know, that even Mr. Abrams was able to hit, Mr. Pine's Kirk is a ladies man, beds green women, fights people? Because we all know what happens when you only hit the broad notes, and don't reach to the substance, the layer beneath it.

READ. Don't skim. As someone like Mr. Filoni over in the SW fandom gives me the impression of skimming the lore rather than patiently absorbing it, which yields mixed results. And reading, it seems is just too much effort for our modern crop of Ritalin-fueled pot-smoking hippie artists.

I have no idea what your talking about Most of what Filoni touch (sans the resistance) is the best star wars materials since the original trilogy.

[Captain Crimson]

Another thing I'd like. I know that ST has always been fast and loose with continuity, even going back to the TNG days, when that was the only sequel series ever, but I feel like they need to at least try to adhere to it, to an extent. So that any deviations are retcons, ones you choose. It's not even that hard. Just read through each episode and movie summary on MA. Treat those as C Canon, like from the old SW EU, and treat the books, video games, and TAS, if you wanna go with them, as S Canon, also from the old SW EU. I'd be fine with retcons if I didn't get the impression it's because the writers were accidentally blundering into them, not deliberately as creative license, that they are ignorant to the depth of the lore, and can only grasp the broader aspects - you know, that even Mr. Abrams was able to hit, Mr. Pine's Kirk is a ladies man, beds green women, fights people? Because we all know what happens when you only hit the broad notes, and don't reach to the substance, the layer beneath it.

READ. Don't skim. As someone like Mr. Filoni over in the SW fandom gives me the impression of skimming the lore rather than patiently absorbing it, which yields mixed results. And reading, it seems is just too much effort for our modern crop of Ritalin-fueled pot-smoking hippie artists.

I have no idea what your talking about Most of what Filoni touch (sans the resistance) is the best star wars materials since the original trilogy.

My feelings on Mr. Filoni may be radically different than most of fandom, but this is not the proper venue to touch upon it, especially since this is a thread meant for ST, not SW, so I feel as if that may have to wait for another day. And I also don't wanna clog up this thread with huge chunks of text that go on for pages-quality length. You're welcome.

[clearspira]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXyD7ZMjfKY

Its official: Star Trek Discovery BOMBS on network TV. Its debut on CBS netted a pitiful 1.7 million viewers with a 0.2 audience share among the 18-49 demo.

That's for Star Trek. The second oldest sci fi franchise in the world. A show with a fanbase built up over 50 years. 1.7 million viewers. 0.2 audience share among its key demo.

That is crap.

And don't give me ''well, everyone who wanted to watch it has already bought CBS All Access and watched it on there.'' Come off it, CBS All Access is the beta male of streaming services. Most people only have enough money for a few subscriptions and I guarantee you that most people choose Netflix, Amazon or Disney. There are still plenty of people left who have not seen STD.

[CharlesPhipps]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXyD7ZMjfKY

Its official: Star Trek Discovery BOMBS on network TV. Its debut on CBS netted a pitiful 1.7 million viewers with a 0.2 audience share among the 18-49 demo.

That's for Star Trek. The second oldest sci fi franchise in the world. A show with a fanbase built up over 50 years. 1.7 million viewers. 0.2 audience share among its key demo.

That is crap.

And don't give me ''well, everyone who wanted to watch it has already bought CBS All Access and watched it on there.'' Come off it, CBS All Access is the beta male of streaming services. Most people only have enough money for a few subscriptions and I guarantee you that most people choose Netflix, Amazon or Disney. There are still plenty of people left who have not seen STD.

And? There's been no advertisement for its network appearance. It's a RERUN and it saved them X amount of dollars for no cost.

It's also already made them a fortune.

The massive success of Discovery never needed a hit on network television because it already was one on streaming.

You've just added an additional million viewers to 10,000,000 so now we can say ELEVEN million viewers have watched it.

[Captain Crimson]

Cable's been dying a slow death for a while now, so you could make all sorts of arguments and counterarguments here. That being said, however, I'm a bit hesitant to say there might not be fandom unrest. Now! ST has NEVER been as tight with continuity as some people like to think it is. And too many fans may have rose-colored nostalgia blinders on that could be muddling their views, and I doubt many have rewatched in a long time. But at the same time, they don't have to be right. As customers, all they need to do is buy it.

Could it go higher? I have no idea. I hate to harp on SW in a non-related thread, but, well, again, going off what I said above, related to this, did you know TCW, which Mr. Chuck also reviews, dropped ratings similar to how ENT had during its broadcast run? The glowing positives people gush on that show drown out this pertinent detail, but really, go look at the figures. To begin at four or three million viewers and then fall to two or one million is rather alarming, and while you could blame many factors, I personally think there was a lot more fandom unrest past the usual drama and nitpicks that certain figures in the management were brushing off and exacberating. And no, not Mr. Lucas. It's too similar to ENT to be something you can ignore.

What does it stem from? Lack of respect to the audience. And it always has since, IMO, Interwebbz became mainstream, and those egocentric personalities crafting western entertainment don't want customers, but "the right ones."

Tired. Heading to sleep. Night.

[Link8909]

Another thing I'd like. I know that ST has always been fast and loose with continuity, even going back to the TNG days, when that was the only sequel series ever, but I feel like they need to at least try to adhere to it, to an extent. So that any deviations are retcons, ones you choose. It's not even that hard. Just read through each episode and movie summary on MA. Treat those as C Canon, like from the old SW EU, and treat the books, video games, and TAS, if you wanna go with them, as S Canon, also from the old SW EU. I'd be fine with retcons if I didn't get the impression it's because the writers were accidentally blundering into them, not deliberately as creative license, that they are ignorant to the depth of the lore, and can only grasp the broader aspects - you know, that even Mr. Abrams was able to hit, Mr. Pine's Kirk is a ladies man, beds green women, fights people? Because we all know what happens when you only hit the broad notes, and don't reach to the substance, the layer beneath it.

READ. Don't skim. As someone like Mr. Filoni over in the SW fandom gives me the impression of skimming the lore rather than patiently absorbing it, which yields mixed results. And reading, it seems is just too much effort for our modern crop of Ritalin-fueled pot-smoking hippie artists.

I see what you mean, while I'm personally easy going when it comes to cannon and I was fine and even liked some of the retcons and new additions in Star Trek Discovery, I can see how other people would get annoyed by these things, they were additions that raised questions and were unnecessary to being with, so I do hope that in Strange New Worlds (which will be the only prequel series in this era of Star Trek now) they don't drop similar bombshells to what Discovery did.

However because most worlds that Captain Kirk discovered in The Original Series aren't brought up in the future, I think it's fine for Captain Pike to discover worlds that we haven't see or heard of before.

Also I consider The Animated Series cannon.