New Mutants will be a horro film

[Madner Kami]

[...] like the happy face guys are just not working, [...]

One of the many flaws of the movie is, to not explain things, sometimes at all. You can piece together by bits of text all over the movie, that these guys are the people who sexually abused Ilyana or, rather, the mental image she created of her tormentors. What's completely perplexing is, their completely uniform outlook, demeanor and physical stature. It comes from nowhere, leads to nowhere and doesn't mean anything, especially the masks.
Also, how is Illyana somehow stuck in her prison as a victim of sexual abuse, despite being able to teleport into a parallel dimension and from there, clearly can move to different places? This also further breaks continuity of the movie itself, as it's completely unexplained why she's stuck in the hospital that she's very clearly aware, is no hospital, but yet another prison that she wants to escape from.

[...] but the character dynamics are alright and it's a cohesive story.

This is one of the parts, that I feel is in the movie, but was broken by editing. Their "growing together" feels completely disjointed. They are almost constantly at odds with one another, except for the two pairings of Roberto and Sam and Rahne and Danni. But even those pairings lack... scenes. Rahne and Danni just fall in love within what feels like the span of a day. Also, the entire group sans Danni seem to have been in there for more than just a few days, they clearly know each other more intimately, yet Sam and Roberto only start becoming friends shortly before the climax, despite hanging out together almost all the time as if they were friends already and knowing intimate details about each other, despite still questioning about intimte details that they should already know (the t-shirt thing for example).
And then there's Illyana. She's nobody's friend, constantly berates the others and yet is constantly dragged along by the group. She's the Cartman-mystery, where you have a character that nobody likes, who's a complete arsehole and constantly tries her damn hardest to not be a part of the group, yet somehow is still a center-piece of a group of... "friends" who don't like her one bit and don't want to be around her. Until she becomes the heavy hitter of the team in the last few minutes and suddenly everyone is the tightest friend with everyone, except for the love-couple, who are more than friends after knowing each other for what feels like two, maybe three days.

Also, this "hospital". A staff of one, who can be drugged by the inmates? Repeatedly? How was this ever supposed to work in the first place? And how the fuck did Illyana get the means to put her to sleep anyways?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Yeah I heard some disappointing things about the casting verses the characters in the source material. Still might be worth checking out if I can see it in a safe way.

Lead character is Cheyenne Indian girl, and I thought she was great. They actually had some decent subtext to it what not. I'd guess this would be a pretty good movie for kids. Really though wasn't bad as a franchise starter too.

Like I've gone to the theaters for much worse movies the last couple years.

It's like Breakfast Club but a twisted story. Personality is limited to like half the kids though.

Oh, that's encouraging. I had heard rumors there was some major white-washing.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah I heard some disappointing things about the casting verses the characters in the source material. Still might be worth checking out if I can see it in a safe way.

Lead character is Cheyenne Indian girl, and I thought she was great. They actually had some decent subtext to it what not. I'd guess this would be a pretty good movie for kids. Really though wasn't bad as a franchise starter too.

Like I've gone to the theaters for much worse movies the last couple years.

It's like Breakfast Club but a twisted story. Personality is limited to like half the kids though.

Oh, that's encouraging. I had heard rumors there was some major white-washing.

Well I mean there could be beyond what I was describing of course.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

[...] like the happy face guys are just not working, [...]

One of the many flaws of the movie is, to not explain things, sometimes at all. You can piece together by bits of text all over the movie, that these guys are the people who sexually abused Ilyana or, rather, the mental image she created of her tormentors. What's completely perplexing is, their completely uniform outlook, demeanor and physical stature. It comes from nowhere, leads to nowhere and doesn't mean anything, especially the masks.
Also, how is Illyana somehow stuck in her prison as a victim of sexual abuse, despite being able to teleport into a parallel dimension and from there, clearly can move to different places? This also further breaks continuity of the movie itself, as it's completely unexplained why she's stuck in the hospital that she's very clearly aware, is no hospital, but yet another prison that she wants to escape from.

[...] but the character dynamics are alright and it's a cohesive story.

This is one of the parts, that I feel is in the movie, but was broken by editing. Their "growing together" feels completely disjointed. They are almost constantly at odds with one another, except for the two pairings of Roberto and Sam and Rahne and Danni. But even those pairings lack... scenes. Rahne and Danni just fall in love within what feels like the span of a day. Also, the entire group sans Danni seem to have been in there for more than just a few days, they clearly know each other more intimately, yet Sam and Roberto only start becoming friends shortly before the climax, despite hanging out together almost all the time as if they were friends already and knowing intimate details about each other, despite still questioning about intimte details that they should already know (the t-shirt thing for example).
And then there's Illyana. She's nobody's friend, constantly berates the others and yet is constantly dragged along by the group. She's the Cartman-mystery, where you have a character that nobody likes, who's a complete arsehole and constantly tries her damn hardest to not be a part of the group, yet somehow is still a center-piece of a group of... "friends" who don't like her one bit and don't want to be around her. Until she becomes the heavy hitter of the team in the last few minutes and suddenly everyone is the tightest friend with everyone, except for the love-couple, who are more than friends after knowing each other for what feels like two, maybe three days.

Also, this "hospital". A staff of one, who can be drugged by the inmates? Repeatedly? How was this ever supposed to work in the first place? And how the fuck did Illyana get the means to put her to sleep anyways?

Yep. This is mostly a problem of liftoff and transition. I'm not even 100% confident it's not a writing issue as much as editing. I thought it was snappy, but just baron, as is understandable based on the sum of the movie as well as its parts.

Really the trappings of this movie remind me of map editing for a game, particularly an objective based one of course for proper analogy. You basically need distinctive checkpoints/transitions, a nuanced environment for engaging navigation and variation, and detailed doodads and written out narrative over the thing for character dialog etc... The movie just doesn't have precise detailing for the environment, or characters overall. The main two as you say get screen time, and Illyana holds her weight by herself -- the 3 girls are more interesting than the 2 boys that's for sure. Also the transitions don't work. It's like the scary guys show up as you're saying and it didn't build for it via pacing. The pool moment's actually kind of hot I thought, but you said it exactly it's not built up.

The hospital actually works as a baron place. We know something's wrong about it, and the events of the movie do only just about enough to distract you from it. But the problem there imo is that that works more primely as a veiled mystery type of plot, whereas here it's just kind of apparent but just underspoken, like Clue but not a comedy. Again, it's a problem of liftoff. Kind of like watching a theatrical performance where you have to suspend your expectation of outworld transitioning and just find yourself in one room or the other. Here you just kind of find yourself in the middle of a scene.

[Madner Kami]

The pool moment's actually kind of hot I thought, but you said it exactly it's not built up.

Only Roberto's age is mentioned, if I recall right and he was 16 or 17. Illyana is rather unlikely to be older, so careful what you imply there

But in all seriousness, that's actually something I had severe trouble reconciling while watching the movie.
It's kinda clear that Danni projects the fears of the "inmates" and so far they all make sense. Sam finds himself in the mine with his father, Illyana meets the Smile-Men, Rahne gets confronted by the religious nutjob who branded her as a W(itch), Danni is hunted by the Bear of Fear who threatens to devour her (literally and figuratively) and Roberto's fear is... having sex with Illyana in a pool? Um... Huh?
Ok, I get it, he burned his girl-friend to a crisp during a literally way too hot makeout-session, but how do we come from there to having a steamy encounter with Illyana? Ok, maybe he fantasizes about and fancies her and thus kinda has her in mind when Danni's powers trigger but doesn't actually make the moves on her, due to his fears. But in relation to how the others experience their fears, this doesn't add up, as they more or less relive what "broke" them. And then suddenly "Illyana" transforms into his burned GF and the scene is where it should have been from the beginning.
Then you start thinking about this scene and how it could have been done better and you realize, that there wouldn't be a hot makeout-session if the "dream-girl" in question would have been his GF in the first place... So... Yeah. That scene is in there, just to have a hot makeout-session, I feel... A makeout-session with a victim of sexual abuse and pedophilia who hasn't really reconciled with what has happened to her no less. *slowclap*
And this all gets topped by how every single other woman in the movie is displayed in a very plain, almost anti-sexualized way. Rahne hides her body in her wide, loose clothing (which makes sense for her character, given her ultra-religious background very likely has a strong anti-sexual thing going on, topped by her being either bi- or homosexual on top of her bodily transformation abilities), Danni is just a teenage girl in casual clothing and the Doctor is... well, unless you have a fetish for doctoresses or librarian-types, then she doesn't register as attractive or sexually interesting either. And then there's Illyana. She is attractive and, maybe that's just my thing, but the grunge/emo/light-gothic-thing is something I find very attractive in reallife. I have a gothic-background, so I suppose that's a given for my personal perspective, but she's the only really "conventionally" attractive girl in the ensemble and except for the kiss between Danni and Rahne, Illyana is the only character in the entire movie, who is sexualized. That she's also the only character who gets a mild nude scene (bikini), and is literally a sexual fantasy, is kind of a very odd choice, given her being a teenager who was sexually abused like yesterday. It's probably not intended, but I think they should have avoided that obvious road-bump and think about how to display Roberto's fear for a few more minutes than they actually did (or, alternatively, change the fear-encounters of the others away from "what had happened" to "afraid of what could happen" or "afraid of having it happen again", like Roberto's is intended to be).

As for your comment regarding writing vs editing. Don't get me wrong, craft-wise, the editing is fine. I just feel that some scenes or bits of scenes were left on the floor of the cutting-room. Naturally it could also be a writer's problem, not fleshing things out properly, so the "missing" things and scenes weren't left on the editing room's floor, but just plainly don't exist to begin with. I'll concede that point.

P.S.: Given how much I write about this movie? I like it, clearly. That comes as kind of a surprise to me, given that I feel that it just doesn't work in my opinion. I suppose it's because there are quite a number of very interesting and intriguing things going on and that there's a diamond in there, it's just very, very rough.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The pool moment's actually kind of hot I thought, but you said it exactly it's not built up.

Ok, I get it, he burned his girl-friend to a crisp during a literally way too hot makeout-session, but how do we come from there to having a steamy encounter with Illyana? Ok, maybe he fantasizes about and fancies her and thus kinda has her in mind when Danni's powers trigger but doesn't actually make the moves on her, due to his fears. But in relation to how the others experience their fears, this doesn't add up, as they more or less relive what "broke" them. And then suddenly "Illyana" transforms into his burned GF and the scene is where it should have been from the beginning.

Without the details I was mentioning, it comes off bland. These are all familiar circumstances though and it's a nice ensemble imo. Just very rudimentary in execution.

Then you start thinking about this scene and how it could have been done better and you realize, that there wouldn't be a hot makeout-session if the "dream-girl" in question would have been his GF in the first place... So... Yeah. That scene is in there, just to have a hot makeout-session, I feel... A makeout-session with a victim of sexual abuse and pedophilia who hasn't really reconciled with what has happened to her no less. *slowclap*

All I was thinking at the time was that they had something in there for lgbt while also having something in there for hetero teens who are already established in this type of genre. It's a balance that makes for an all around more steamy scene that they can get out of the way.

And this all gets topped by how every single other woman in the movie is displayed in a very plain, almost anti-sexualized way. Rahne hides her body in her wide, loose clothing (which makes sense for her character, given her ultra-religious background very likely has a strong anti-sexual thing going on, topped by her being either bi- or homosexual on top of her bodily transformation abilities), Danni is just a teenage girl in casual clothing and the Doctor is... well, unless you have a fetish for doctoresses or librarian-types, then she doesn't register as attractive or sexually interesting either. And then there's Illyana. She is attractive and, maybe that's just my thing, but the grunge/emo/light-gothic-thing is something I find very attractive in reallife. I have a gothic-background, so I suppose that's a given for my personal perspective, but she's the only really "conventionally" attractive girl in the ensemble and except for the kiss between Danni and Rahne, Illyana is the only character in the entire movie, who is sexualized. That she's also the only character who gets a mild nude scene (bikini), and is literally a sexual fantasy, is kind of a very odd choice, given her being a teenager who was sexually abused like yesterday. It's probably not intended, but I think they should have avoided that obvious road-bump and think about how to display Roberto's fear for a few more minutes than they actually did (or, alternatively, change the fear-encounters of the others away from "what had happened" to "afraid of what could happen" or "afraid of having it happen again", like Roberto's is intended to be).

I think modern-day coming-of-age stories aren't so black and white about sexualized culture anymore. It used to be a pretty defining or polarizing thing in the 90's, but in-crowds and out-crowds are much more blurred. Overt sexualization is more just the styles you'd expect sported by the more emo style or the jock playboy. They're just two people in this movie. Danni and Rahne on the other hand is a pretty suitable coming of age YA relationship. Show me one lesbian movie in the last 20 years that doesn't have a front poster of two women embracing each other with such in-the-moment intimacy. It's the same intimate connection that these two exhibit.

Roberto's subtext is very limited, I don't know what to make of it really.

As for your comment regarding writing vs editing. Don't get me wrong, craft-wise, the editing is fine. I just feel that some scenes or bits of scenes were left on the floor of the cutting-room. Naturally it could also be a writer's problem, not fleshing things out properly, so the "missing" things and scenes weren't left on the editing room's floor, but just plainly don't exist to begin with. I'll concede that point.

I think I get where you're coming from as you do me here. I do get that some things just kind of work for me, and this is kind of one of those stories. It just appeals to the teenager in me more than anything, and that does go a long way for me.

P.S.: Given how much I write about this movie? I like it, clearly. That comes as kind of a surprise to me, given that I feel that it just doesn't work in my opinion. I suppose it's because there are quite a number of very interesting and intriguing things going on and that there's a diamond in there, it's just very, very rough.

Given its development hell, I am utterly impressed with how the script didn't get completely watered down.

[Madner Kami]

Given its development hell, I am utterly impressed with how the script didn't get completely watered down.

For the record, I really like how Rahne and Danni's "moment" comes quite naturally. It's not overtly telegraphed, it's not in your face, it's just two people digging each other and in a private, very intimate moment, revealing their feelings to each other. The overall "getting to know each other" could've been more fleshed out, like so many things in this movie, but "the moment" was handled very well. Maise Williams was a perfect pick for the role and there's really good chemistry between her and Blu Hunt, I think, which really helps make it feel natural.

As for "Illyana" and Roberto, I must admit that at first, I did not get that the pool-scene was actually a fear-projection and not just because Illyana is so misplaced there (as part of Roberto's fear), but because I felt it fit the modus operandi of both characters (despite the scene kinda coming out of nowhere). Illyana just looking for a fling and Roberto trying to fit into the rich playboy/jock-stereotype, that he has been trying to fit into the entire time, despite the act being so beautifully torn out under him, when they had their game with the lie detector. In retrospect, yeah, Illyana was just too friendly during that entire scene, but it worked for the moment and was believable and, truth be told, I wish the fear-projections of the others (except for Danni), would've been done in a similar way. Their scenes don't really reveal anything that we didn't know already and their scenes don't play that well into the theme of continued insecurity/fear of their powers, that Roberto's projection is based on.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It's just amazing how undeveloped the environment is though. I feel there's a lot they could have done there, as you might have been saying, but were trying to avoid doing anything the 10 resident evil movies did.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

So, I finally saw this, and I have to say...it lived up to my expectations. It didn't fall short of them or exceed them. It was just decent. I'm glad we got the gay romance, and the heroine was a compelling main character. The "two bears" thing was rather cheesy and trite, but it could have been worse. There were a lot of decent scares, although they could have done more to make the atmosphere oppressive and overwhelming. From both an in-universe logic perspective and a structural perspective, one doctor running an entire institution for multiple mutant kids wasn't enough. At the very least she should have had a bunch of burly orderlies or other faceless minions at her disposal.

Wolfbane was perfect, though, and the smiling men were good, juicy horror creeps. Maybe not the most original creature-wise, but they did their job.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So, I finally saw this, and I have to say...it lived up to my expectations. It didn't fall short of them or exceed them. It was just decent. I'm glad we got the gay romance, and the heroine was a compelling main character. The "two bears" thing was rather cheesy and trite, but it could have been worse. There were a lot of decent scares, although they could have done more to make the atmosphere oppressive and overwhelming. From both an in-universe logic perspective and a structural perspective, one doctor running an entire institution for multiple mutant kids wasn't enough. At the very least she should have had a bunch of burly orderlies or other faceless minions at her disposal.

Wolfbane was perfect, though, and the smiling men were good, juicy horror creeps. Maybe not the most original creature-wise, but they did their job.

Yes very unflatteringly sterile of an environment. And yeah it was kind of cute how they diversified it, which was a bit rudimentary but vivid nonetheless.

I really can't remember feeling like the place was a legit hospital or anything. It's true they could have done more with the initial act to make it more subversive when shit started happening.

I would say the weakest trick the movie tried to pull was each person's situation which was kind of nonconductive towards each other as a group and familiar to me as an audience; just ending up anticlimactic. Still though, the beginning and end touches are just what you'd expect to be missing in this.