Did Disney change the Jedi rules about sex?

[Rocketboy1313]

Movies with Mikey did a video about how a better way to look at the Force is to see the Light Side as that of love.
A sentiment I agree with, I think Disney would prefer, and I hope they use going forward.
https://youtu.be/nVZGUV77aRg

But then, I am all for death of the author, and all of this is fictional horseshit that we use to distract ourselves from the inevitability of death and our own meaninglessness before the vast and ancient beyond reckoning universe we live within. So I say believe whatever you want, like/dislike the movies/books/games/other-shit based on how good they are, and then stop thinking so hard about the sex lives of space wizards.

[GandALF]

That could still fit with Lucas' joy/selfless happiness definition, an agape sort of thing.

[The Romulan Republic]

And, you know, the Federation doesn't have a giant Berlin Wall in space around it. You can... get on a ship and leave.

Isn't that what the Maquis tried?

No.

They didn't choose to leave. They were very pointed about defending their territory. Their is a difference between emigration and armed revolt (regardless of weather one feels that the armed revolt is justified).

I don't see what the Federation really has to do with this.

My point is they are both their creator's ideas of good, you might not agree with it but that's how the story operates. It's not the Jedi you have a problem with, it's the story.

No, I'm pretty sure its with the Jedi.

Or, rather, the traditionalist Prequel Jedi.

I also think that the story doesn't necessarily match Lucas's comments several years after the fact (and Lucas is well-known for contradicting himself).

So I think that its rather arrogant of you to imply that one quote from Lucas is the true story, and then tell me "oh, you just don't like the story" because I have a different opinion of a certain aspect of it than you.

[GandALF]

I don't see what the Federation really has to do with this.

My point is they are both their creator's ideas of good, you might not agree with it but that's how the story operates. It's not the Jedi you have a problem with, it's the story.

No, I'm pretty sure its with the Jedi.

Or, rather, the traditionalist Prequel Jedi.

I also think that the story doesn't necessarily match Lucas's comments several years after the fact (and Lucas is well-known for contradicting himself).

So I think that its rather arrogant of you to imply that one quote from Lucas is the true story, and then tell me "oh, you just don't like the story" because I have a different opinion of a certain aspect of it than you.

Well evidence for the joy/pleasure dynamic having always been the case is firstly in ANH Obi-Wan says that "Vader was seduced by the dark side" with obvious connotations

Secondly for the celibacy we have this bit from the rough draft from waaaaay back in 1974

Montross goes back to his station and a few moments later, Starkiller is paged over the P.A. system. The general waits, watching the big board. Eventually, Starkiller stumbles out of an enclosed computer closet, fastening his pants and tucking in his tunic. A moment later, the cute female aide rather sheepishly exits the computer closet. She is also in the process of putting her uniform back together. Starkiller rushes up to the general and snaps to attention.

The general lets him stand there for a moment, not acknowledging his presence; then, suddenly, without warning and in one masterful flash motion, the general stands, grabs a small baton attached to his belt (which immediately ignites into a four-foot glowing lazersword,) and swings at the young warrior’s head. In an equally quick movement, Starkiller ignites his lazersword and blocks the general’s blow. Everyone in the war room is surprised and startled. After a moment, they rush to the general. Starkiller and the general stand motionless for a few moments, with lazerswords locked in mid-air, creating a low buzzing sound. Finally, the general grins, and Starkiller hesitantly relaxes. They lower their swords and turn them off.

GENERAL

You are trained well, but remember, a JEDI must be single-minded, a discipline your father obviously never learned, hence your existence. Clean yourself up. Discipline is essential. Your mind must follow the way of the BENDU.

STARKILLER

It won’t happen again, Sir.

Jedi are free to leave the order to marry like Obi-Wan considered doing for Satine. Being married and having Jedi responsibilities would be too much pressure as Anakin found out.

[Robovski]

And, you know, the Federation doesn't have a giant Berlin Wall in space around it. You can... get on a ship and leave.

Isn't that what the Maquis tried?

The Maquis found themselves on Cardassian planets that used to be Federation ones, at least the first ones, by Federation/Cardassian treaty.

As for get on a ship and leave, how? There's no money in the Federation to have saved up. You might have a few possessions to trade but the rest of the Galaxy runs on money. If you don't have useful skills, what do you do? Not everyone can work a passage to wherever, and would you be welcome when you got where you are going?

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

To me, the Jedi are certainly shown to be flawed in the PT, but I feel like the flaw was intended to be mainly spiritual, and perhaps partly procedural, rather than ideological. The Jedi fell because their vision was clouded and they failed to perceive the threats that were staring them right in the face. They were slow to action and allowed compromise where they shouldn't have.

The cause-in-fact of their downfall may be a combination of Anakin's betrayal and the Emperor's Order 66, but the proximate cause was their loss of vigilance.

With that said, I don't think that the current powers that be share Lucas' vision of Jedi ideology, and they know that "Nothing is more important than family" is one of the more popular themes in Hollywood blockbusters, especially in the past couple of decades. Action heroes used to be bachelors, now as often as not they seem to be family men/women (more often men, of course). It would be refreshing to have a female lead who isn't required to have a love interest, but they aren't going to purposefully eschew a family-positive message.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well evidence for the joy/pleasure dynamic having always been the case is firstly in ANH Obi-Wan says that "Vader was seduced by the dark side" with obvious connotations

That's a bit of stretch. At most, taken fairly literally, it suggests that the Dark Side gives pleasure, but it does not follow that all pleasure is of the Dark Side. Just like, say, Nazism is a form of government, but it does not follow that all governments are Nazi.

Secondly for the celibacy we have this bit from the rough draft from waaaaay back in 1974

Montross goes back to his station and a few moments later, Starkiller is paged over the P.A. system. The general waits, watching the big board. Eventually, Starkiller stumbles out of an enclosed computer closet, fastening his pants and tucking in his tunic. A moment later, the cute female aide rather sheepishly exits the computer closet. She is also in the process of putting her uniform back together. Starkiller rushes up to the general and snaps to attention.

The general lets him stand there for a moment, not acknowledging his presence; then, suddenly, without warning and in one masterful flash motion, the general stands, grabs a small baton attached to his belt (which immediately ignites into a four-foot glowing lazersword,) and swings at the young warrior’s head. In an equally quick movement, Starkiller ignites his lazersword and blocks the general’s blow. Everyone in the war room is surprised and startled. After a moment, they rush to the general. Starkiller and the general stand motionless for a few moments, with lazerswords locked in mid-air, creating a low buzzing sound. Finally, the general grins, and Starkiller hesitantly relaxes. They lower their swords and turn them off.

GENERAL

You are trained well, but remember, a JEDI must be single-minded, a discipline your father obviously never learned, hence your existence. Clean yourself up. Discipline is essential. Your mind must follow the way of the BENDU.

STARKILLER

It won’t happen again, Sir.

Jedi are free to leave the order to marry like Obi-Wan considered doing for Satine. Being married and having Jedi responsibilities would be too much pressure as Anakin found out.

That script bit is interesting, but it doesn't necessarily mean the general is right, nor that Lucas consistently stuck to that interpretation. In fact, that passage seems to imply that even casual sex is forbidden, which is divergent from Lucas's later statements.

And as the script notes, Our Hero would not exist without forbidden Jedi fucking.

I'll also note that Anakin might have had an easier time balancing his Jedi duties and his family duties if the former had permitted him to be open about the latter.

And if having a committed, loving sexual relationship was inherently of the Dark Side, you'd think that the Jedi would be stricter about it- not making exceptions (as they canonically have done), nor permitting Jedi who wanted to follow that path to leave, where they would be free to follow the "Dark Side" without Jedi oversight, but while retaining their Force powers.

Of course, there's contradictory Jedi doctrine on this point in any case.

But bottom line, we have multiple canon cases of fallen force users being redeemed to the Light Side by love, or at least of that being heavily implied to be the case. Vader being just the most obvious. You can't throw that out without rejecting a central part of canon, and of the OT's themes.

[GandALF]

That script bit is interesting, but it doesn't necessarily mean the general is right, nor that Lucas consistently stuck to that interpretation. In fact, that passage seems to imply that even casual sex is forbidden, which is divergent from Lucas's later statements.

He didn't say casual sex was allowed that was Jon Stewart's joke. The Jedi have always been portrayed as monastic and monks. are. celibate.

I'll also note that Anakin might have had an easier time balancing his Jedi duties and his family duties if the former had permitted him to be open about the latter.

That was his problem, he was selfish, he didn't want to sacrifice being Jedi for Padme or sacrifice Padme for the Jedi. He wanted to do what he wanted without considering what it would to his duties as a Jedi or as a husband.

But bottom line, we have multiple canon cases of fallen force users being redeemed to the Light Side by love, or at least of that being heavily implied to be the case. Vader being just the most obvious. You can't throw that out without rejecting a central part of canon, and of the OT's themes.

Storge is not eros and Jedi are supposed to practice agape

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, if you're looking for examples of romantic love, Bastilla and Revan? Albeit no longer canon, sadly.

And while I agree that Anakin's love for Padme was tainted by a great deal of selfishness, I don't see anything innately selfless about wanting to both have a job that allows you to use your powers to do good, and also care for your wife and children.

I'm also not aware of any evidence that Jedi are supposed to be celibate in any canon (past or present, either old EU or Disney), beyond the assumption that monks=celibate (even though Jedi are typically referred to as knights, not monks).

[GandALF]

Okay, if you're looking for examples of romantic love, Bastilla and Revan? Albeit no longer canon, sadly.

And while I agree that Anakin's love for Padme was tainted by a great deal of selfishness, I don't see anything innately selfless about wanting to both have a job that allows you to use your powers to do good, and also care for your wife and children.

I'm also not aware of any evidence that Jedi are supposed to be celibate in any canon (past or present, either old EU or Disney), beyond the assumption that monks=celibate (even though Jedi are typically referred to as knights, not monks).

Canon or not Revan did have to leave Bastila to face Vitiate, duty over personal wants.Being a Jedi is not an ordinary job, protecting the galaxy requires some personal sacrifice.

Holy knightly orders like the Knights Templar usually had a vow of chastity as a requirement. And the ideal knight, Sir Galahad, isn't referred to as "pure" because of his hygiene.