(VOY) Real Life

[Dînadan]

Torres didn't specify that 'little girl must die in tragic accident, LOL', she modified the program to have greater variations and risks happen..

True, but later on, after the accident when the Doctor just turns off the programme rather than experience the fallout she gives him spiel about how we don't have the luxury of turning real life off which is what prompts him to turn it back on and experience the trauma, which is a dick move on her part and trivialises such traumas to 'pain builds character'.

No she doesn't, Paris does. Kes does. Torres doesn't speak to him for the rest of the episode, because she's dealing with the B plot of saving Paris while he's trapped in space tornado dimension.

My mistake, could have sworn it was her that did.

[CareerKnight]

Consistent story logic has never been Voyager's strong suit. By the episode's own justifications the Doctor should be pissed off that Torres killed his family and replaced them with three strangers cause you can't just rewrite a family in real life.

[FakeGeekGirl]

Whoa this is spooky. I was just thinking about making a thread about this episode this morning.

If I were to try to fix this thing, I would have made his family a running subplot through at least a few episodes so we have time to get to know the little girl before she dies and it feels less cheap. I'd also have her accident and death be the only plot of the episode, and I'd treat it like the dramatic version of Badda Bing Badda Bang. I agree having it be a jack-in-the-box would be a better idea so Torres doesn't look like an asshole, and it would mean the rest of the crew has time to try to help. Harry and Torres try to figure out how to alter the code to "cheat" and save her by manipulating the program without having to reset and lose her personality / emerging sentience, Tom and Kes go into the program to try to help medically. But nothing works, and the little girl still dies, and resetting the program would mean losing precious memories and character development plus the Doctor can't bring himself to do it. And they would mention it every now and then thereafter as something that badly affected him even though it was "just" a simulation. Or they could be really daring and have something someone does work and they save her, and for the rest of the show the Doctor has a family we see every now and then, changing the status quo as Voyager needed to do way more often.

[TGLS]

But when would we have time for Janeway's stupid gothic holonovel?!

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Kind of a curmudgeonly post incoming-

It still blows my mind that writers do this. Here you are, writing science fiction, a genre that is tremendously freeing from a plot perspective. You can tell a huge variety of stories, you can explore a sensitive topic through metaphor and allusion or you can take tried and true approaches in dealing with issues of family, love, or whatever you want. Then you have a premise that throws your crew across the galaxy, a situation that allow for even more possibilities, liberating Voyager from standard Star Trek limitations. The possibilities are endless.

All this potential, and what idea do they come up with? A fricking simulation of a hologram having a family life. That simulation doesn't have any drama, so the characters artificially have to insert it, which is actually a pretty good metaphor for the show if you think about it.

The more familiar I've become with quality drama, the less patience I have for the more vapid and trite "explorations of humanity." Holodecks can be fun for the situations they put our characters in, but I don't get why Voyager of all shows kept retreating into it. Loss and suffering are perfectly valid artistic themes, and they are things that the characters could easily experience in a non-artificial way, although that might hurt their ability to his the reset button.

[FaxModem1]

Consistent story logic has never been Voyager's strong suit. By the episode's own justifications the Doctor should be pissed off that Torres killed his family and replaced them with three strangers cause you can't just rewrite a family in real life.

More like brainwashed them or lobotomized them, with the Doctor's consent and permission.

[CareerKnight]

The more familiar I've become with quality drama, the less patience I have for the more vapid and trite "explorations of humanity." Holodecks can be fun for the situations they put our characters in, but I don't get why Voyager of all shows kept retreating into it. Loss and suffering are perfectly valid artistic themes, and they are things that the characters could easily experience in a non-artificial way, although that might hurt their ability to his the reset button.

As Chuck has said,

"there was one unmistakable sensation you got from Voyager
'Never seizing the opportunities that presented themselves. He learned to play it safe.' "

[Dînadan]

The more familiar I've become with quality drama, the less patience I have for the more vapid and trite "explorations of humanity." Holodecks can be fun for the situations they put our characters in, but I don't get why Voyager of all shows kept retreating into it. Loss and suffering are perfectly valid artistic themes, and they are things that the characters could easily experience in a non-artificial way, although that might hurt their ability to his the reset button.

As Chuck has said,

"there was one unmistakable sensation you got from Voyager
'Never seizing the opportunities that presented themselves. He learned to play it safe.' "

In some ways Voyager feels like they wanted to do TNG but with new characters, which is presumably why (as Chuck has mentioned before) the production coding had it as TNG Season 8 rather than Season 1 of a new show. The frequent off screen resets and lack of internal conflict would have been far more befitting a show set on the boarders of Federation space like TNG than one lost on the far side of the galaxy.

[bronnt]

In some ways Voyager feels like they wanted to do TNG but with new characters, which is presumably why (as Chuck has mentioned before) the production coding had it as TNG Season 8 rather than Season 1 of a new show. The frequent off screen resets and lack of internal conflict would have been far more befitting a show set on the boarders of Federation space like TNG than one lost on the far side of the galaxy.

Except that TNG had a particular love of character continuity. If something happened to a character on that show, it often mattered beyond that episode. Sure, there are episodes where that didn't hold true ("The Bonding" for instances, or Riker's character arc from "Best of Both Worlds" just disappearing), but in general, TNG referenced things that mattered to people. After Tasha died, people continued to mention Tasha for years later. After Kes left, she may as well have never existed except for one episode.

[Dînadan]

In some ways Voyager feels like they wanted to do TNG but with new characters, which is presumably why (as Chuck has mentioned before) the production coding had it as TNG Season 8 rather than Season 1 of a new show. The frequent off screen resets and lack of internal conflict would have been far more befitting a show set on the boarders of Federation space like TNG than one lost on the far side of the galaxy.

Except that TNG had a particular love of character continuity. If something happened to a character on that show, it often mattered beyond that episode. Sure, there are episodes where that didn't hold true ("The Bonding" for instances, or Riker's character arc from "Best of Both Worlds" just disappearing), but in general, TNG referenced things that mattered to people. After Tasha died, people continued to mention Tasha for years later. After Kes left, she may as well have never existed except for one episode.

I never said they wanted to do it competently