Extreme Ghostbusters: Darkness At Noon pt1 and 2.

[Deledrius]

I don't really see the problem with the skepticism vs. suspension of disbelief.

It's the accidental anti-science thing that happens when you present legitimate arguments used in real life against pseudoscience, in a fictional world where those arguments don't hold up to basic scrutiny.

Aside from having the effect of subtly giving the viewer a knee-jerk reaction to reject those arguments, it also (as Chuck points out) highlights the fictional nature of the world for those who are actually familiar with those arguments and why they are solid and based in fact. Those are real-world arguments in conflict with the fictional world which wouldn't make sense to be formulated at all, so it's essentially fourth-wall breaking by its nature.

The bigger problem is that "flat earth atheist" problem; people being skeptical of something that is well established in the universe. It is somewhat believable that people could view the events of the Ghostbusters movie as a mass delusion (as basically it is a few weeks or maybe a few months of increased ghostly outbreaks). It is much harder to think that a world that has undergone the events of the Real Ghostbusters series (for a few years all sorts of independent ghostly phenomenon has been occurring) could have skepticism about ghosts be that prevalent.

Right. This is the point. It's hard to believe it, because it's clearly true. So a "skeptic" in the X-Files or Ghostbusters universe is no such thing; they are simply a denialist. It's one of those things that is a consistently difficult needle to thread, because you really can't make a skeptical character be a real person with a believable intellectual position in a world where magic/fantasy/ghosts/etc. are not only real but commonplace (at least in their personal experience, as for Scully).

I was disappointed that there wasn't any follow-up on Kylie mentioning she wants to gain a few pounds. For uh, reasons. >_>

What reasons? It was quoted in the end stinger, if that's what you mean.

[CrypticMirror]

So a "skeptic" in the X-Files or Ghostbusters universe is no such thing; they are simply a denialist. It's one of those things that is a consistently difficult needle to thread, because you really can't make a skeptical character be a real person with a believable intellectual position in a world where magic/fantasy/ghosts/etc. are not only real but commonplace (at least in their personal experience, as for Scully).

Denialist in Ghostbusters after the big Gozer invasion, before that being a sceptic is valid. X-Files is trickier, there actually is a huge global conspiracy dedicated to making scepticism seem valid and covering up "the truth" so unless you are in the conspiracy, or are Mulder [and eventually Skinner and Scully, because both start as sceptics and do come around as the evidence mounts] then the evidence does give every impression of being on the side of scepticism versus aliens, leprechauns, and post office queues that last less than forty minutes. Scully starts from the position of Mulder's claims being exceptional and thus needing exceptional proof, which is totally valid for someone not in the conspiracy, and she applies occams razor properly based on the starting level of knowledge an ordinary person would have. But she does readjust, and I like that she doesn't just decide to jump in the deep end right away but as changes her position multiple times and at different speeds based on different issues, just like a sceptic and a scientist would. It is not denialism, it is the conspiracy being frighteningly good at their jobs.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I was disappointed that there wasn't any follow-up on Kylie mentioning she wants to gain a few pounds. For uh, reasons. >_>

What reasons? It was quoted in the end stinger, if that's what you mean.

I mean follow-up in the TV series, not in the review.

[Aotrs Commander]

This totally bypassed me during the 90s. I took one look at it and went "yep, more trying-too-hard dreck" (there was A LOT of that in the 90s) and dismissed it out of hand. (Plus teenage-me felt umbridge at them not simply doing more of the original.) From reputation - as here - I have gathered it was better than my initial impressions; though not, as one dinobot scholar would say, more better enough to make me want to seek it out.

[Rocketboy1313]

This totally bypassed me during the 90s. I took one look at it and went "yep, more trying-too-hard dreck" (there was A LOT of that in the 90s) and dismissed it out of hand. (Plus teenage-me felt umbridge at them not simply doing more of the original.) From reputation - as here - I have gathered it was better than my initial impressions; though not, as one dinobot scholar would say, more better enough to make me want to seek it out.

It is on Hulu, it is a short series. I would recommend giving a few episodes a shot. There are some pants-shitting level monsters in the series. One of them steals eyeballs.

[DoctorWTF]

Right. This is the point. It's hard to believe it, because it's clearly true. So a "skeptic" in the X-Files or Ghostbusters universe is no such thing; they are simply a denialist. It's one of those things that is a consistently difficult needle to thread, because you really can't make a skeptical character be a real person with a believable intellectual position in a world where magic/fantasy/ghosts/etc. are not only real but commonplace (at least in their personal experience, as for Scully).

Quite often, it's framed an issue of "science versus supernatural" by writers who don't understand that:

a. Science is about taking an objective look at how the world works.

b. Part of being a responsible scientist is understanding that you don't know everything.

c. You're dealing with a world that plays by a different set of rules than ours - in the context of a world where ghosts/magic/other fantasy stuff is unambiguously real, then those things are absolutely fair game for the scientific method.

Upholding the principle "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is good. Mindlessly handwaving away said extraordinary proof as a hoax/swamp gas/whatever without a proper investigation is bad.

[Deledrius]

Right. This is the point. It's hard to believe it, because it's clearly true. So a "skeptic" in the X-Files or Ghostbusters universe is no such thing; they are simply a denialist. It's one of those things that is a consistently difficult needle to thread, because you really can't make a skeptical character be a real person with a believable intellectual position in a world where magic/fantasy/ghosts/etc. are not only real but commonplace (at least in their personal experience, as for Scully).

Quite often, it's framed an issue of "science versus supernatural" by writers who don't understand that:

a. Science is about taking an objective look at how the world works.

b. Part of being a responsible scientist is understanding that you don't know everything.

c. You're dealing with a world that plays by a different set of rules than ours - in the context of a world where ghosts/magic/other fantasy stuff is unambiguously real, then those things are absolutely fair game for the scientific method.

Upholding the principle "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is good. Mindlessly handwaving away said extraordinary proof as a hoax/swamp gas/whatever without a proper investigation is bad.

Nailed it.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

It might help to have people who don't believe in ghosts/gods/magic in a world where they are proved framed more like Climate Change Denialists or Anti-Maskers, Bush Did 9/11 wonks, etc. "These 'ghosts' are just holograms created by vampire jews to win the election!"

[Rocketboy1313]

It might help to have people who don't believe in ghosts/gods/magic in a world where they are proved framed more like Climate Change Denialists or Anti-Maskers, Bush Did 9/11 wonks, etc. "These 'ghosts' are just holograms created by vampire jews to win the election!"

I think you all are leaving out several possibilities for how people deny reality.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer portrayed a town that came up with the condition of "neck rupture" to explain why there were so many deaths in the city.
People don't want to believe and will put in the mental gymnastics in order to avoid it.
Also, these are supernatural forces that may very well be able to slip out of people's minds.

There are lots of explanations that you can just head canon in there.
It doesn't really matter that much.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

"People don't want to believe" isn't a very effective one, because everything we've seen suggests people really do want to believe in the supernatural, even when there are better explanations available.