Reaching Out Across the Aisle

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Let me just say, in the wake of this...
It's on the conservatives to reach out to people on the left. Every single sanctimonious think piece about accepting political differences and building bridges and bipartisanship has been asking us on the left to be more accepting of conservatives and reach out to them. It's a two-way street, buddy. YOU guys can go and make an effort to communicate with and understand US for a change.

[Nevix]

...

We've been trying that for years.

When conservatives try to have a discussion, we're called bigots, killers, and worse.

We're accused of wanting to push granny off a cliff for disagreeing on how to best administer health care/health insurance regulations.

We're called greedy and puppets of the rich for wanting to lower the taxes that have been choking off small businesses. (I have a small business owner friend whose taxes went DOWN from $20,000 a year to $12,000 a year because of the Trump Tax Cuts. They make less than 100k a year, so that extra 8,000 is a MASSIVE boon to their ability to live and expand their business.)

We're called racists for pointing out and offering our opinions on a wide variety of inner city issues that are centered in cities that have been run by democrats for DECADES.

We try to build Charter Schools, which are a public school option that gets better results for less money, and to pass school choice, so that kids in awful schools can go to better ones, but they get opposed constantly.

If a conservative or republican "steals" a free cookie sample, but a democrat steals a Cadillac dealership, the conservative must step down, but the democrat must apologize.

Anything good that happens has the credit given by the mainstream media to democrats, while republicans are just benefitting from what the wise democrat gave them, but anything bad that happens on the democrat's watch is the fault of republicans somehow.

EVERYTHING I live by and stand for is treated as some great horror, conflated with the worst of reprobates, and derided as insanity or worse daily, to the point where most television shows include some kind of jab at my beliefs, Faith, and the values of my country.

And worst of all?

When the Republican Senate AND House of Representatives were BEGGING Obama to sign a budget bill that included EVERYTHING Obama wanted... Obama kept raising the bar of what he wanted, and never signed a budget, then blamed the Republicans for not trying hard enough.

And now? When Donald Trump is SUCCEEDING at negotiating peace in the middle east, and has been nominated for FOUR Nobel Prizes, it's never even mentioned by the press.

Or worse, it's said "It's not a REAL peace deal!" (because they say so)

SO.

Don't you DARE tell me that we need to reach out.

Because.
We.
Have.
Only.
Gotten.
STABBED IN THE HAND EVERY TIME WE TRY, and then told we're awful for not falling in line afterwards.



We just want the government to leave us alone, and for the government to stop trying to control our lives.



YOUR SIDE needs to climb off the high horse you're on, and actually reach out to us, to HEAR us, instead of just saying that we need to reach out.



Because I've tried, and I get mocked on twitter, or there's an absolute refusal to listen to any source that's not one of the approved in group sources, or I get told I'm insane for disagreeing.



I'm sorry to be angry here, but I'm not sorry for the sentiments behind this post. It's offensive to me to be told that *I* have to reach out, when just saying "I'm a conservative" can get me kicked out of some groups.




I LITERALLY have multiple friends who conceal their conservatism because they could lose a LOT of business for their art based small businesses if they're outed as conservative, because the art communities they're a part of are deeply leftist/democrat.

One of those friends literally wiped out their twitter account and created a new one because of cancel culture. There's no way for them to tell what will cause a cancel culture mob to attack, so EVERYTHING had to be wiped from the old account.

The other friend has literally had people turn hostile in and instant because their conservatism/capitalism was revealed, and had to spend time stopping the now hostile friend from organizing a digital mob to drive them out of the community.



TL:DR:


Don't try to reach across the aisle when the other side has been trying for years, but has always either gotten burned, or gotten insulted for not falling in line.


EDIT:

Yes. This is a major sore spot for me.

It gets very frustrating when you spend years of your life being told you're an awful thing who deserves neither love nor respect because your political opinion differs.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Jesus christ, posts #1 and #2 off the bat diametrically frame this as a one sided issue. Major chicken and egg stuff here.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

...

We've been trying that for years.

Okay then, I'll bite. Bridge convinced me to at least try.

I can't promise I'll like what you say or be happy about it or agree with it, but I will make a sincere, good-faith effort to see you as something other than just my ideological enemy. I will drop the posturing, the sick burns, the jokes, the point-scoring, and honestly attempt to understand you.

You mentioned small business taxes. That's a starting point. Why else do you support 45? What else about him or his policies do you see as worthy of respect and something to fight for? How did he benefit you and further your political goals? (I'm not engaging on the Nobels because anybody can be nominated, it's winning one that matters to me.)

Or don't talk to me about him. Talk to me about you. What are your beliefs? Tell me about your faith and the values of our country as you see them. Tell me why you think conservative politics are important to those ends.

Again, I'm cautious, and I'm promising nothing, but I'm gonna try, Nevix.

[Nevix]

...

We've been trying that for years.

Okay then, I'll bite. Bridge convinced me to at least try.

I can't promise I'll like what you say or be happy about it or agree with it, but I will make a sincere, good-faith effort to see you as something other than just my ideological enemy. I will drop the posturing, the sick burns, the jokes, the point-scoring, and honestly attempt to understand you.

You mentioned small business taxes. That's a starting point. Why else do you support 45? What else about him or his policies do you see as worthy of respect and something to fight for? How did he benefit you and further your political goals? (I'm not engaging on the Nobels because anybody can be nominated, it's winning one that matters to me.)

Or don't talk to me about him. Talk to me about you. What are your beliefs? Tell me about your faith and the values of our country as you see them. Tell me why you think conservative politics are important to those ends.

Again, I'm cautious, and I'm promising nothing, but I'm gonna try, Nevix.

Thank you very much for giving my this chance.

It is VERY Much appreciated, especially given the awful experience I had yesterday with a pair of coworkers who dismissed me out of hand and insulted me repeatedly.



So, to establish my perspective and political stance: I am a Christian American Conservative, who is close to 40 years old. I believe in God through Jesus, as is in The Bible. I believe in the combination of freedom/liberty and personal responsibility/civic duty, limited government, and the preservation of the positive values of the past that stem from America's founding, while working to make a more perfect union within those bounds.

Two major defining points that define me are "People will be fine is they're left to live and manage their own lives." and "Government can't be trusted."



The Economy:

To expand on the small business examples, that benefit extends to the entire economy. Lower taxes mean that business owners small and large AND workers of all economic levels have an easier time making ends meet. A business has less overhead, and thus can make a larger profit at the same amount of work, and lower prices/keep prices the same longer. Workers can thus afford more for the same amount of money, and thus have an easier time making ends meet.

Lower taxes also have a side benefit that, once a certain threshold of "low" is met, corruption is reduced because spending thousands or millions on lobbying for tax breaks/carveouts/etc costs more than just paying the taxes.

That is also why I support switching to simpler flat tax, as the need for an army of accountants and lawyers to navigate the tax code would be reduced, also lowering overhead.

The economic growth from the lower taxes and increased capital also benefits workers, as the expanding businesses need more workers, resulting in both more employment, and
higher wages.

Prior to Covid, there was record low unemployment for blacks, a lower rate of unemployment, and increasing wages for most if not all employment fields.



A related issue is deregulation, not to eliminate all regulations, but to eliminate regulations that do nothing but cost extra with little to no benefit. Fair business practices and safe work environments can be maintained by a reasonable number of laws/regulations, lowering compliance costs and adding to production/economic growth.

Donald Trump has removed hundreds of these regulations for every one he's passed.



Energy Independence:

By supporting Fracking and oil/coal production, energy costs have fallen and the United States has become a net exporter of energy. The falling energy costs benefit everyone, including businesses, but especially the poor, who spend more per dollar earned on energy/heating/utilities than everyone else.

The increased production of gas, coal, and oil both provide employment and increased prosperity for businesses in the area of the fuel production.

There is what is called a "Cracker" plant being built in Scranton PA which will allow for easier distribution and production of natural gas/oil in PA and the northeast U.S. There's also the jobs attached to the business, and to businesses catering to the employees needed.

The "Cracker" plant might get banned under potentially more strict environmental regulations, in spite of the benefit and the higher quality production that it can make.

The decreased cost of production/energy frees up capital to spend on environmental cleanup as well as R&D for clean energy sources. (More efficient solar panels, less space intensive windmills that are less of a risk to birds, more efficient batteries that weigh less to make electric cars more viable, etc.)



Related environmental note: U.S. pollution levels are the only national pollution levels that met the Paris Climate Accords levels, and they were met without being in the climate accords.



School Choice/Charter Schools:

Public schools often suck. Hard. In a bad way. (This is a sore spot for me for personal reasons, as the public schools I went to had about 1 teacher that actually cared about my success as a student, and the rest of the teachers were either indifferent, hostile, or misguided in how they tried to motivate me, hence the bitter tone.)

School choice allows people formerly stuck in an awful school due to where they live to send their kids to a better school, which forces the awful school to either close due to a lack of students, or to improve policy/teaching practices to compete and succeed in educating students.

Public Charter Schools quite often get better results for less money per student, oftentimes in the same building with a wide variety of students.

The combination of both of these in an area increases the quality of education, and gives all students a better chance of success later in life.

Democrat politicians have consistently opposed both school choice and public charter schools. President Obama repeatedly attempted to shut down the DC Opportunity Scholarship program, which was benefitting minority children, and it had to be reinstated by Congress/The Senate each time, yearly.


1/2

[Nevix]

2/2

Pro life legislation, and religious freedom legislation:

Life is precious. Life begins at conception. Abortion, to me, is wrong.

I believe it is a VERY bad for society for kids to grow up with the knowledge that their parents could have killed them in the womb.

President Trump has been one of the most pro life politicians in a LONG time. Protecting the innocent who cannot speak for themselves is a necessity.

Related to this is freedom of religion, exemplified in cases like the Little Sisters of the Poor, and other religious organizations/businesses that have religious objections to providing certain things like contraceptives, but had government officials/policies that were attempting to force them to either violate their beliefs, or to break a law that restricted religious freedom.

The "Separation of church and state" is not a part of the constitution, as the anti-establishment clause forbids the government from establishing the a "Church of the United States", but does NOT restrict the practice of religion, including by people in political office, and in schools.



Gun rights:

The 2nd amendment gives people the legal right to bear arms, and the "Militia" as defined during the writing of the Constitution meant "The whole of the people, minus a few select politicians" slightly paraphrased.

While, personally, I would prefer that legal guns would never be fired out of necessity, there ARE people who will hurt/kill for a variety of reasons, and everyone deserves the choice of whether or not they arm themselves to protect themselves.

Gun rights also protect from an out of control government.

The Cliven Bundy case is a prime example of this, as Cliven had already been paying STATE land usage fees, but the federal government attempted to seize his livestock for not paying an arbitrary amount of federal land usage fees.

Armed citizens gathered, and the federal government backed down without a shot being fired.

Cliven Bundy and his family later successfully sued the government due to a variety of abuses during the incident, like his house being surrounded by snipers, federal employees celebrating and keeping track of which members of the family they had managed to grind their faces into the ground, and more.

There have also been numerous examples of armed citizens defending themselves and their families from armed attackers in a variety of circumstances.



Policies that benefit both minorities and other residents of inner cities, and victims of overzealous prosecution due to the 90s crime bill.

The 1st step act, Opportunity Zones, the Platinum Plan, and other actions taken:

The 1st Step Act benefits people charged under 3 strikes laws from the 90s, (which were supposed to have accompanying social reforms passed soon after, but those never got brought up), and allows for flexibility in sentencing for people who would be imprisoned for extended periods due to such laws.

Opportunity zones give businesses incentives to open in the inner cities, providing work and opportunity to either leave the inner city, or to be able to improve/repair damage due to the further opportunity to sell to/support the employees of said businesses.

The platinum plan hasn't been enacted, but was developed after Ice Cube talked with the Trump Administration about what he'd seen as ways to help.




There's a LOT more issues I could go into here, but I've been writing for hours, and this post is already a heavy wall of text.

Sincerely,
Nevix

PS: Yikes I'm a wordy guy. I apologize for any redundant text, and the length of the post. I wanted to get as much as I could into this, and I don't want to take days to respond due to over editing.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

...

We've been trying that for years.

Okay then, I'll bite. Bridge convinced me to at least try.

I can't promise I'll like what you say or be happy about it or agree with it, but I will make a sincere, good-faith effort to see you as something other than just my ideological enemy. I will drop the posturing, the sick burns, the jokes, the point-scoring, and honestly attempt to understand you.

You mentioned small business taxes. That's a starting point. Why else do you support 45? What else about him or his policies do you see as worthy of respect and something to fight for? How did he benefit you and further your political goals? (I'm not engaging on the Nobels because anybody can be nominated, it's winning one that matters to me.)

Or don't talk to me about him. Talk to me about you. What are your beliefs? Tell me about your faith and the values of our country as you see them. Tell me why you think conservative politics are important to those ends.

Again, I'm cautious, and I'm promising nothing, but I'm gonna try, Nevix.

Thank you very much for giving my this chance.

It is VERY Much appreciated, especially given the awful experience I had yesterday with a pair of coworkers who dismissed me out of hand and insulted me repeatedly.



So, to establish my perspective and political stance: I am a Christian American Conservative, who is close to 40 years old. I believe in God through Jesus, as is in The Bible. I believe in the combination of freedom/liberty and personal responsibility/civic duty, limited government, and the preservation of the positive values of the past that stem from America's founding, while working to make a more perfect union within those bounds.

Two major defining points that define me are "People will be fine is they're left to live and manage their own lives." and "Government can't be trusted."

Thank you for this response. Going to take some time to read this, look at my sources, and mull things over so I can give a measured, informed response instead of speaking straight from the hindbrain.

[Beastro]

Let me just say, in the wake of this...
It's on the conservatives to reach out to people on the left. Every single sanctimonious think piece about accepting political differences and building bridges and bipartisanship has been asking us on the left to be more accepting of conservatives and reach out to them. It's a two-way street, buddy. YOU guys can go and make an effort to communicate with and understand US for a change.

From what I've known of many American conservatives all you'd have to do here is switch out of a few words and it would apply to how they see things.

The perception I've seen expressed from both sides is that the other will not allow the opposition to keep any power. Either side wins, they'll lock the other out forever and America will die. The sad thing I see with that thinking is that it paints the US as undergoing mitosis and one that expects one of the newly divided cells to kill the other because only they are the real America.

That has tied into talk I've seen if a civil war happens. The outlook is both alarming and reassuring to conservatives that I've seen talk of this given that the left is holed up in cities that can't support themselves well if cut off and besieged who aren't known for their love of guns or the military.

Through that lens, a civil war would be expected to be a short joke. With that said, though, that then stokes the fears that the left knows these things and will seek to coop the government to make sure things are on their side more should that happen (which then gets the fears of Nazi Germany going in their minds). The other bit is what will happen afterwards with many I know sadly pondering what the unleashed passions would produced. If it goes as they expect, effectively creating mass slaughter of the left which is something they DO NOT want, however much many on the left might wish to think they would.

If a conservative or republican "steals" a free cookie sample, but a democrat steals a Cadillac dealership, the conservative must step down, but the democrat must apologize.

Something related to keep in mind.

Probably THE biggest thing that got Trump in was his desire to punch back when punched. Those on the right I know were sick of Republicans holding back maintaining their principles accepting that as an acceptable price to losing well. They wanted a fighter who'd go at the opposition with as much intensity as they went at conservatives.

I will say though, that as much as they loved that, they've spent these past four years groaning and rolling their eyes at his constant faux pas. That's the thing: Trump was of use and scratched an itch, but if anyone else could come along to properly be conservative and be a fighter they'd drop him in a flash.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

There's a LOT more issues I could go into here, but I've been writing for hours, and this post is already a heavy wall of text.

Sincerely,
Nevix

PS: Yikes I'm a wordy guy. I apologize for any redundant text, and the length of the post. I wanted to get as much as I could into this, and I don't want to take days to respond due to over editing.

Alright, so this is general conservative positioning, notwithstanding values exhibited.

I mean there is a progressive response to a lot of the reasoning, I assure you, but I don't just assume all conservatives are off their rocks or something.

Do you have a low opinion of the the left in general?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Okay, Nevix. I've read your post. Before I respond directly to it I want to make a similar post of my own, outlining my values and priorities. After that I would like to hear a little more about how your religion informs your politics, if you'd be up for that.