Sfdebris fallout 3

[Keyser94]

If you wanted to be sold out to the Fallout universe, you could have played New Vegas instead of 3, that is an indirect sequel of the two first games made by Obsidian, side quest wise, Fallout 3 is great, but the main story is basically the repetition of the first Fallout game, also the fact that they recycled the Enclave for no apparent reason when those guys were defeated in Fallout 2.

And let not speak that most people use mods to skip the whole intro quests, because is that tedious, and the final questions are hard as the beginner level of Driver, is just tedious, also for some apparent reason the Brotherhood of Steel are the good guys in this game, when in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas their motivations are more in shades of grey, and Bethesda market this faction to oblivion retconing many times their own games to fit them in.

I suspect that new vegas is coming, but he's doing fallout 3 first for 2 reasons.
1. Because it was released first
2. Because he can then show how much better new vegas is by contrasting it with 3

I not know, this days Chuck is being very contradictory in his own videos, his age is coming up to him or he is one those that staying in the middle and doing nothing is the best option, because he fears to call them evil, I not usually use words like good or evil, because as hobby writer that publish in the internet I let my readers made their own minds, but one thing that I cant stand is when someone not call out horrible policies that endanger or ruin people lives only because they are afraid of being in the crossfire or are blinded by nostalgia.

[CharlesPhipps]

If you wanted to be sold out to the Fallout universe, you could have played New Vegas instead of 3, that is an indirect sequel of the two first games made by Obsidian, side quest wise, Fallout 3 is great, but the main story is basically the repetition of the first Fallout game, also the fact that they recycled the Enclave for no apparent reason when those guys were defeated in Fallout 2.

Eh, that's basically the point. Fallout 3 is a retelling(ish) of Fallout 1 and 2 and introduces all the previous factions. If you're going to buy a franchise then you'll want to include all the things people liked about it. If you're just going to make new ones, make RADIOACTIVE and create your own onstead.

And let not speak that most people use mods to skip the whole intro quests, because is that tedious, and the final questions are hard as the beginner level of Driver, is just tedious, also for some apparent reason the Brotherhood of Steel are the good guys in this game, when in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas their motivations are more in shades of grey, and Bethesda market this faction to oblivion retconing many times their own games to fit them in.

Interplay also did this and made the Brotherhood of Steel the protagonists of TACTICS and that horrible first person shooter. Bethesda didn't make them good guys.

Indeed, I feel like people don't give the game much credit with the BOS. If you actually stop and talk to everyone and learn the lore, it establishes Elder Lyons is a renegade BoS member and that half of his men deserted to become the Outcasts. Some people complained the Outcasts were the "real" BOS but the irony is that according to the BoS codex, even though they were following the ideology, they don't have a right to rebel.

You obey your Elder until you have the votes to remove him and because they didn't, they were traitors. That's what happened in New Vegas when they followed Elder Elijah until enough of his supporters died to his suidical leadership that they could replace him.

Not it inst, is a very lazy way to do games, not take me wrong, I love the Elder Scrolls, I played the three games, even that mostly play Skyrim because their Werewolfs, Vampire and castle mods, that actually make the game way more difficult to play (specially if you play as a vampire), but they totally butcher the lore of Fallout, I really followed closely the lore this game, until Fallout 4 come out, another Bethesda game were the main quest is very bad, but the side quest and the factions are great, even ones again, they forced the Brotherhood of Steel in this game, and the leader is a zealot as Elijah, and let not speak of the dialogue wheel, at least Bioware did it better.

They were so lazy that they not even had the imagination of coming up with a new antagonist like in New Vegas, even that were many of those in New Vegas, not only the Legion, also Robert House, that basically wanted to privatise the Mohave, and make the lives of struggling people even more harder than it was, the whole "revisiting" the factions seems more a talking point of the PR of Bethesda, for to excuse their lazyness.

You forgot the antagonist of Fallout 4 was the Institute.

[Keyser94]

If you wanted to be sold out to the Fallout universe, you could have played New Vegas instead of 3, that is an indirect sequel of the two first games made by Obsidian, side quest wise, Fallout 3 is great, but the main story is basically the repetition of the first Fallout game, also the fact that they recycled the Enclave for no apparent reason when those guys were defeated in Fallout 2.

Eh, that's basically the point. Fallout 3 is a retelling(ish) of Fallout 1 and 2 and introduces all the previous factions. If you're going to buy a franchise then you'll want to include all the things people liked about it. If you're just going to make new ones, make RADIOACTIVE and create your own onstead.

And let not speak that most people use mods to skip the whole intro quests, because is that tedious, and the final questions are hard as the beginner level of Driver, is just tedious, also for some apparent reason the Brotherhood of Steel are the good guys in this game, when in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas their motivations are more in shades of grey, and Bethesda market this faction to oblivion retconing many times their own games to fit them in.

Interplay also did this and made the Brotherhood of Steel the protagonists of TACTICS and that horrible first person shooter. Bethesda didn't make them good guys.

Indeed, I feel like people don't give the game much credit with the BOS. If you actually stop and talk to everyone and learn the lore, it establishes Elder Lyons is a renegade BoS member and that half of his men deserted to become the Outcasts. Some people complained the Outcasts were the "real" BOS but the irony is that according to the BoS codex, even though they were following the ideology, they don't have a right to rebel.

You obey your Elder until you have the votes to remove him and because they didn't, they were traitors. That's what happened in New Vegas when they followed Elder Elijah until enough of his supporters died to his suidical leadership that they could replace him.

Not it inst, is a very lazy way to do games, not take me wrong, I love the Elder Scrolls, I played the three games, even that mostly play Skyrim because their Werewolfs, Vampire and castle mods, that actually make the game way more difficult to play (specially if you play as a vampire), but they totally butcher the lore of Fallout, I really followed closely the lore this game, until Fallout 4 come out, another Bethesda game were the main quest is very bad, but the side quest and the factions are great, even ones again, they forced the Brotherhood of Steel in this game, and the leader is a zealot as Elijah, and let not speak of the dialogue wheel, at least Bioware did it better.

They were so lazy that they not even had the imagination of coming up with a new antagonist like in New Vegas, even that were many of those in New Vegas, not only the Legion, also Robert House, that basically wanted to privatise the Mohave, and make the lives of struggling people even more harder than it was, the whole "revisiting" the factions seems more a talking point of the PR of Bethesda, for to excuse their lazyness.

You forgot the antagonist of Fallout 4 was the Institute.

Actually no, I didnt, but they could be easily replaced by the Brotherhood of Steel, also, the Synth is the only good premise of that game, is a shame that they wasted it, also, for a faction so keen in preserving the technology of the old world they are very antagonistic against Synth, even that Robert House made a whole fortune making robots and AI, Synth is just the next level, the Brotherhood would have use them as cheap soldiers, like in the Ghost in the Shell universe, and the whole idea that Father is your son made no sense, because the kidnapper seems that didnt aged a day since you come out of the vault meanwhile father seem to be in his fifties or sixties, is stupid as the plot of Arkham Knight, when a chemist like Crane forgot his chemistry classes and released a gas in the middle of a cold humid night, if you know anything about chemistry you would know that gases condensate very fast in the rain, more when is cold, and let not forget that he switch endgames, first the Ace Chemicals was the endgame that would destroy the city, but when Batman stop that, suddenly the Cloudbuster is the endgame out of nowhere and no explanation.

[Thebestoftherest]

If you wanted to be sold out to the Fallout universe, you could have played New Vegas instead of 3, that is an indirect sequel of the two first games made by Obsidian, side quest wise, Fallout 3 is great, but the main story is basically the repetition of the first Fallout game, also the fact that they recycled the Enclave for no apparent reason when those guys were defeated in Fallout 2.

Eh, that's basically the point. Fallout 3 is a retelling(ish) of Fallout 1 and 2 and introduces all the previous factions. If you're going to buy a franchise then you'll want to include all the things people liked about it. If you're just going to make new ones, make RADIOACTIVE and create your own onstead.

And let not speak that most people use mods to skip the whole intro quests, because is that tedious, and the final questions are hard as the beginner level of Driver, is just tedious, also for some apparent reason the Brotherhood of Steel are the good guys in this game, when in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas their motivations are more in shades of grey, and Bethesda market this faction to oblivion retconing many times their own games to fit them in.

Interplay also did this and made the Brotherhood of Steel the protagonists of TACTICS and that horrible first person shooter. Bethesda didn't make them good guys.

Indeed, I feel like people don't give the game much credit with the BOS. If you actually stop and talk to everyone and learn the lore, it establishes Elder Lyons is a renegade BoS member and that half of his men deserted to become the Outcasts. Some people complained the Outcasts were the "real" BOS but the irony is that according to the BoS codex, even though they were following the ideology, they don't have a right to rebel.

You obey your Elder until you have the votes to remove him and because they didn't, they were traitors. That's what happened in New Vegas when they followed Elder Elijah until enough of his supporters died to his suidical leadership that they could replace him.

Not it inst, is a very lazy way to do games, not take me wrong, I love the Elder Scrolls, I played the three games, even that mostly play Skyrim because their Werewolfs, Vampire and castle mods, that actually make the game way more difficult to play (specially if you play as a vampire), but they totally butcher the lore of Fallout, I really followed closely the lore this game, until Fallout 4 come out, another Bethesda game were the main quest is very bad, but the side quest and the factions are great, even ones again, they forced the Brotherhood of Steel in this game, and the leader is a zealot as Elijah, and let not speak of the dialogue wheel, at least Bioware did it better.

They were so lazy that they not even had the imagination of coming up with a new antagonist like in New Vegas, even that were many of those in New Vegas, not only the Legion, also Robert House, that basically wanted to privatise the Mohave, and make the lives of struggling people even more harder than it was, the whole "revisiting" the factions seems more a talking point of the PR of Bethesda, for to excuse their lazyness.

You forgot the antagonist of Fallout 4 was the Institute.

Actually no, I didnt, but they could be easily replaced by the Brotherhood of Steel, also, the Synth is the only good premise of that game, is a shame that they wasted it, also, for a faction so keen in preserving the technology of the old world they are very antagonistic against Synth, even that Robert House made a whole fortune making robots and AI, Synth is just the next level, the Brotherhood would have use them as cheap soldiers, like in the Ghost in the Shell universe, and the whole idea that Father is your son made no sense, because the kidnapper seems that didnt aged a day since you come out of the vault meanwhile father seem to be in his fifties or sixties, is stupid as the plot of Arkham Knight, when a chemist like Crane forgot his chemistry classes and released a gas in the middle of a cold humid night, if you know anything about chemistry you would know that gases condensate very fast in the rain, more when is cold, and let not forget that he switch endgames, first the Ace Chemicals was the endgame that would destroy the city, but when Batman stop that, suddenly the Cloudbuster is the endgame out of nowhere and no explanation.

Teh brotherhood always against new technology, they only preserve technology as far as it would take them. If they can't learn of too much post war technology any version would destroy it.

[Rocketboy1313]

You forgot the antagonist of Fallout 4 was the Institute.

Actually no, I didnt, but they could be easily replaced by the Brotherhood of Steel, also, the Synth is the only good premise of that game, is a shame that they wasted it, also, for a faction so keen in preserving the technology of the old world they are very antagonistic against Synth, even that Robert House made a whole fortune making robots and AI, Synth is just the next level, the Brotherhood would have use them as cheap soldiers, like in the Ghost in the Shell universe, and the whole idea that Father is your son made no sense, because the kidnapper seems that didnt aged a day since you come out of the vault meanwhile father seem to be in his fifties or sixties, is stupid as the plot of Arkham Knight, when a chemist like Crane forgot his chemistry classes and released a gas in the middle of a cold humid night, if you know anything about chemistry you would know that gases condensate very fast in the rain, more when is cold, and let not forget that he switch endgames, first the Ace Chemicals was the endgame that would destroy the city, but when Batman stop that, suddenly the Cloudbuster is the endgame out of nowhere and no explanation.

Fallout 4's narrative had so many problems that I don't even think of it as worth debating, none of the four core factions make any sense and all of them need a serious rewrite. I appreciate the "Caves of Steel" inspiration for the institute, I appreciate many little things like the pipe guns and laser muskets, but holy hell does the story not make any damn sense.

The Far Harbor DLC managed to do all the narrative turns in the main game 10x's better and it is still only okay.

[Riedquat]

Fallout 4's narrative had so many problems that I don't even think of it as worth debating, none of the four core factions make any sense and all of them need a serious rewrite. I appreciate the "Caves of Steel" inspiration for the institute, I appreciate many little things like the pipe guns and laser muskets, but holy hell does the story not make any damn sense.

The Far Harbor DLC managed to do all the narrative turns in the main game 10x's better and it is still only okay.

I thought Far Harbor was pretty good really. Not absolutely brilliant but still pretty good, especially by Bethesda standards.

Some of the plot issues in the main storyline are bigger than others though. I don't mind Kellogg having been around for ages - he's been modified and implanted. But it seems he left Diamond City a long time ago and you're following fresh clues - that bit I never figured out. The problem with the factions is that they're not terribly fleshed out and rather black and white but the Institute is the only one I've really got a problem with as it's never clear how they're supposed to be achieving anything with what they're doing, rather than just being boo hiss villains. The others fit well enough, in an unquestioning naive about their position sort of way.

As Chuck said though Bethesda games are really about the world, which is probably why story flaws bother me less in them than they do in a Bioware game, since they seem to be there mostly just to give you stuff to do in the game world.

[Rocketboy1313]

Some of the plot issues in the main storyline are bigger than others though. I don't mind Kellogg having been around for ages - he's been modified and implanted. But it seems he left Diamond City a long time ago and you're following fresh clues - that bit I never figured out. The problem with the factions is that they're not terribly fleshed out and rather black and white but the Institute is the only one I've really got a problem with as it's never clear how they're supposed to be achieving anything with what they're doing, rather than just being boo hiss villains. The others fit well enough, in an unquestioning naive about their position sort of way.

As Chuck said though Bethesda games are really about the world, which is probably why story flaws bother me less in them than they do in a Bioware game, since they seem to be there mostly just to give you stuff to do in the game world.

I HATE the character of Kellogg.

The absolute pit of narrative in Fallout 4 is when you are walking thru his memories.
Why the fuck do you need/want to know the backstory of some mercenary cyborg?
HE IS JUST A GOON!
He is not an interesting character, he is just a generic gruff badass.
They didn't even make that part of the game playable beyond, "click on this thing to hear more pointless pontification" which is just shit. For god's sakes, you couldn't have some kind of Inception style dream fight with an AI security system that is trying to erase compromising information about the institute before you make it there? Fucking "Saints Row IV" knew that you had to have real gameplay in your expository VR bullshit!

And yeah, the fresh clues thing that you follow with your dog makes zero sense. You have a guy who has access to a teleporter... who is leaving a scent trail... to say nothing of that trail being in a major metropolitan area which is full of toxic waste and standing moisture.

And the stupid Institute. WHY ARE THEY REPLACING PEOPLE? TO WHAT END?! All they seem to want in a reactor so they can be left in their completely unassailable fortress underground. Nothing they do makes sense.

[drewder]

If you wanted to be sold out to the Fallout universe, you could have played New Vegas instead of 3, that is an indirect sequel of the two first games made by Obsidian, side quest wise, Fallout 3 is great, but the main story is basically the repetition of the first Fallout game, also the fact that they recycled the Enclave for no apparent reason when those guys were defeated in Fallout 2.

Eh, that's basically the point. Fallout 3 is a retelling(ish) of Fallout 1 and 2 and introduces all the previous factions. If you're going to buy a franchise then you'll want to include all the things people liked about it. If you're just going to make new ones, make RADIOACTIVE and create your own onstead.

And let not speak that most people use mods to skip the whole intro quests, because is that tedious, and the final questions are hard as the beginner level of Driver, is just tedious, also for some apparent reason the Brotherhood of Steel are the good guys in this game, when in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas their motivations are more in shades of grey, and Bethesda market this faction to oblivion retconing many times their own games to fit them in.

Interplay also did this and made the Brotherhood of Steel the protagonists of TACTICS and that horrible first person shooter. Bethesda didn't make them good guys.

Indeed, I feel like people don't give the game much credit with the BOS. If you actually stop and talk to everyone and learn the lore, it establishes Elder Lyons is a renegade BoS member and that half of his men deserted to become the Outcasts. Some people complained the Outcasts were the "real" BOS but the irony is that according to the BoS codex, even though they were following the ideology, they don't have a right to rebel.

You obey your Elder until you have the votes to remove him and because they didn't, they were traitors. That's what happened in New Vegas when they followed Elder Elijah until enough of his supporters died to his suidical leadership that they could replace him.

Not it inst, is a very lazy way to do games, not take me wrong, I love the Elder Scrolls, I played the three games, even that mostly play Skyrim because their Werewolfs, Vampire and castle mods, that actually make the game way more difficult to play (specially if you play as a vampire), but they totally butcher the lore of Fallout, I really followed closely the lore this game, until Fallout 4 come out, another Bethesda game were the main quest is very bad, but the side quest and the factions are great, even ones again, they forced the Brotherhood of Steel in this game, and the leader is a zealot as Elijah, and let not speak of the dialogue wheel, at least Bioware did it better.

They were so lazy that they not even had the imagination of coming up with a new antagonist like in New Vegas, even that were many of those in New Vegas, not only the Legion, also Robert House, that basically wanted to privatise the Mohave, and make the lives of struggling people even more harder than it was, the whole "revisiting" the factions seems more a talking point of the PR of Bethesda, for to excuse their lazyness.

You forgot the antagonist of Fallout 4 was the Institute.

The institute wasn't a new faction, they're actually from fallout 3. The only new group in fallout 4 was the minutemen who are just a radiant quest generator used to push the new settlement system.

[Rocketboy1313]

The institute wasn't a new faction, they're actually from fallout 3. The only new group in fallout 4 was the minutemen who are just a radiant quest generator used to push the new settlement system.

The Institute is new.
Let's not pretend one quest in Fallout 3 which portrays them as an active and forthright minor player in the region in anyway resembles the underground fortress with an army of killer robots and technology that eclipses all other players in the Wasteland.

It is like the half dozen Golden Age comic books which show Batman using a gun. That is not Batman, it is "Batman" which is at best a rough idea that would become Batman.

[Riedquat]

I HATE the character of Kellogg.

The absolute pit of narrative in Fallout 4 is when you are walking thru his memories.
Why the fuck do you need/want to know the backstory of some mercenary cyborg?
HE IS JUST A GOON!
He is not an interesting character, he is just a generic gruff badass.
They didn't even make that part of the game playable beyond, "click on this thing to hear more pointless pontification" which is just shit. For god's sakes, you couldn't have some kind of Inception style dream fight with an AI security system that is trying to erase compromising information about the institute before you make it there? Fucking "Saints Row IV" knew that you had to have real gameplay in your expository VR bullshit!

That's definitely the most tedious bit to play through (at least until the block puzzles in Far Harbor, which were a good attempt at a decent DLC shooting itself in its foot), but if they'd been skippable (or at least a hell of a lot shorter) I could've probably shrugged themselves off due to the "it's not really about the story" attitude I have with Bethesda games. Have one personal bit of backstory if you must (about five seconds to say he was a merc picked up by the Institute, as if it wasn't obvious anyway) and at least have the others relevant to the wider plot - it should've been about revealing a bit of what the Institute's plans and goals really were; I suspect that would've been hard because it would've required the writers to have worked it out.