Star Trek Discovery: Season Three

[Zatman]

I just want to know what happened to the Borg. Did the burn get them?

[Captain Crimson]

I just want to know what happened to the Borg. Did the burn get them?

Man, talk about an embarrassing end for such a once-great species, lol. How about the Cardies and the Dominion?

STD having a fourth season being a sign of success means that you first have to explain to me why ENT's fourth season killing off the franchise for years isn't also a sign of success.

Your logic just defeated itself. DISCO has expanded Star Trek and revived it on television.

So, by your logic, it's a huge success.

Jesus, clearspira, this needs to be said. Please....CAN YOU JUST HATE THE SHOW? Stop trying to argue it's a bomb, just say it sucks!

No one will blame you for it!

I believe clearspira's intent is to say it's only a success for the new, casual fans, SJWs, and the studio suits sterilizing older IPs into safe, bland, generic story worlds to turn a buck.

This is why it's impossible for me to think that the material made today is going to last into the future like the classic geek hits of old. For one thing, it's very derivative, and a rehash of the old. Secondly is that we're living in a very dark age, a veritable drought in the entertainment landscape, so it's not comparable to TOS, which was made in the nuclear age, and as a result, it had a spark of life the modern material does not, even if you like and think it's good, even if it is objectively good. We just can't have good escapes anymore, is how I see it from the generations preceding mine.

That modern Hollywood egotists refuse to own the actual critical fans speaks volumes to their towering vanity and narcissism. I mean, seriously, the "criticism is not toxic fandom, you have a right to hate this" feels more like a token nod to cover their own hides than an actual management mindset, at least for the top dogs smothering the creativity for their employees.

[CharlesPhipps]

I think Star Trek: Discovery will last just as fine as other derivative Star Treks.

But...

I believe clearspira's intent is to say it's only a success for the new, casual fans, SJWs, and the studio suits sterilizing older IPs into safe, bland, generic story worlds to turn a buck.

What the FUCK is a Social Justice Warrior going to find in this versus any of the other Star Treks?

Arguably the most progressive TV show franchise of all time?

[Captain Crimson]

I think Star Trek: Discovery will last just as fine as other derivative Star Treks.

But...

I believe clearspira's intent is to say it's only a success for the new, casual fans, SJWs, and the studio suits sterilizing older IPs into safe, bland, generic story worlds to turn a buck.

What the FUCK is a Social Justice Warrior going to find in this versus any of the other Star Treks?

Arguably the most progressive TV show franchise of all time?

That right there. "The most progressive." It's just empty boasting when we had realistic, non-forced diversity in the past. They like the modern creators are pandering to them even when they write shallow stories. The best material of the past at least tried challenging the way side's viewpoints, so even if they couldn't agree, they still liked a good story. Nowadays, polarization makes that near impossible, insofar as I can tell.

Let's stop bragging about it when we had plenty of diversity even relative to the era the show was made. I mean, if you think offing the first gay couple is somehow superior to the past iterations of the show where being gay is never mentioned, then I don't know what to say.

It's a problem because it's not like the corps care about diversity anyway, it's just a checkbox for them to fill out in the hopes they can rake in huge profits in other countries, and it's how they've become slaves to China in terms of foreign interests.

[CharlesPhipps]

That right there. "The most progressive." It's just empty boasting when we had realistic, non-forced diversity in the past.

It was VERY forced because they cast with the idea of diversity in mind and good on them.

[Link8909]

I just want to know what happened to the Borg. Did the burn get them?

That would be an interesting episode I'd like to see in future seasons as well, I'm also looking forward to finding out what the state of the other Star Trek aliens are like the Klingons, the Dominion, and the Cardassians, which if it's not this season I'm sure they'll get round to telling.

[Link8909]

That right there. "The most progressive." It's just empty boasting when we had realistic, non-forced diversity in the past.

It was VERY forced because they cast with the idea of diversity in mind and good on them.

I absolutely agree, this has always been apart of Star Trek mandate from the start, bare in mind that while we now don't see it as a big deal, back in the 60's with the Civil Rights Movement and during the Cold War, having characters like Uhura and Chekov in prominent roles was a very big deal, and I'll bet anyone credits to navy beans that like now, back then people were complaining about "forced diversity" and "I don't want politic in my Sci-fi show."

Star Trek has always been like this, it's aways been political, has always commentated on the current times, has aways had a diverse cast of characters, and isn't subtle about it.

[Captain Crimson]

That right there. "The most progressive." It's just empty boasting when we had realistic, non-forced diversity in the past.

It was VERY forced because they cast with the idea of diversity in mind and good on them.

I absolutely agree, this has always been apart of Star Trek mandate from the start, bare in mind that while we now don't see it as a big deal, back in the 60's with the Civil Rights Movement and during the Cold War, having characters like Uhura and Chekov in prominent roles was a very big deal, and I'll bet anyone credits to navy beans that like now, back then people were complaining about "forced diversity" and "I don't want politic in my Sci-fi show."

Star Trek has always been like this, it's aways been political, has always commentated on the current times, has aways had a diverse cast of characters, and isn't subtle about it.

I figured I'd pop in for a mo or two and reply here while I'm having another insomniac bout. Fun, huh?

Even if you want to go with the "Star Trek needs to shock people with its outrageous social commentary," what can you really say it's done for the present past "you need to think in leftist terms?" We already had great post-9/11 allegory tales that were done decades ago and predated 9/11. And I've never agreed with that, since I agree with Mr. Michael Jordan's infamous line about how "republicans buy sneakers." Thus, it was always the best when it wasn't hamfisted and heavy-handed, but was more subtle with it. If you aim for something timeless, it endures, while modern material as I see it has a short shelf life with the poor practices of the present polluting them. It's the end of the monoculture.

Modern ST hasn't really broken any boundaries in terms of commentary on the world with its controversies so much as noting they exist, it's like a watered down take on the ST of the '90s, while failing to capture the essence of what '90s ST was. You can tell this since many fans who have been offended are upset for reasons blown off by the management. They care about lack of continuity, or forward-looking values, or something interesting, or obsessing over ship designs or something else. Those were and still are traditional geek pastimes at odds to the current owners. DS9, for example, was always a dark deconstruction, yet it still straddled the line in embracing the world it found itself in. Modern ST is too removed from that to feel like a continuation of it, so much as an alternate universe example.

Too many working on modern entertainment are depressed, angry, and greedy leftists who don't care about the future of the world past "agree with me or you're my enemy" due to increasing polarization, and that's hardly empowering. There are no great dreamers anymore who hope for a better world. I mean, "diversity" for them is trying to hit record numbers in worldwide audiences, in the hope it means higher profits, but that's the paradox since you can't just write off those who align a certain way politically, as they make up large numbers of the population. Is modern ST made for the fans? It's certainly not how fans would have handled it. And it's because the corporations have infected everything. It's sterile. So even the good stuff is packaged all wrong, IMO. Hence why it's less memorable and people won't be eager to return to it once it's all wrapped up.

But if ST has always been this way, why brag about how it's "more progressive?" It's creating a PC echo-chamber culture that is frankly inconsistent and seems hypocritical. By realistic, non-forced diversity, I mean that Sisko wasn't the black captain, he was just the captain. Written today, he'd be a cipher and a stand-in for BLM, since you can't make a black captain without doing that, sadly. And it's how the left can be just as racist as the right.

[CharlesPhipps]

Again, it's ALWAYS been hamfisted and directly in your face.

TNG especially:

"DRUGS BAD!"

"Vietnam veterans should be treated well!"

"Gay people should not be forced to give up their sexual identity."

"Forcing Native people off land is terrible!"

"Old people should not be forced to die because they've reached an arbitrary age."

Now if you're going to argue with me on these, let me screw with you. How many of you know the episodes these are referring to just by these descriptions?"

I rest my case.

And here's where it gets DOUBLY frustrating. DISCO hasn't done ANYTHING remotely as political. In fact, it's like a hundred times LESS political than most Star Trek because it's mostly pew-pew, bang bang but that doesn't fit the criticism that its detractors WANT to throw at it.

They want to complain about social justice and so on so they pretend it's full of message episodes versus fighting insane AI and mustache twirling bald Klingons.

That's what ticks me off because they are using it as an example of their own agenda--fighting perceived Left bias even though it's not remotely an accurate description.

[Thebestoftherest]

Again, it's ALWAYS been hamfisted and directly in your face.

TNG especially:

"DRUGS BAD!"

"Vietnam veterans should be treated well!"

"Gay people should not be forced to give up their sexual identity."

"Forcing Native people off land is terrible!"

"Old people should not be forced to die because they've reached an arbitrary age."

Now if you're going to argue with me on these, let me screw with you. How many of you know the episodes these are referring to just by these descriptions?"

I rest my case.

And here's where it gets DOUBLY frustrating. DISCO hasn't done ANYTHING remotely as political. In fact, it's like a hundred times LESS political than most Star Trek because it's mostly pew-pew, bang bang but that doesn't fit the criticism that its detractors WANT to throw at it.

They want to complain about social justice and so on so they pretend it's full of message episodes versus fighting insane AI and mustache twirling bald Klingons.

That's what ticks me off because they are using it as an example of their own agenda--fighting perceived Left bias even though it's not remotely an accurate description.

Hmm, that actually an interesting point.