Star Trek: Discovery - spoilery thoughts?

[Fixer]

I watched the two Episodes on Netflix (for free, my Brother has an account he can share with me). It was decent SciFi. But it just wasn't the Star Trek I'm used to. It is not bad, or boring.... just not griping and entertaining for an old Trekie like me.

Maybe I'll get a Box Set on a Sale after the Series is done, just to put it next to my other boxes. And watch it one time to justify spending so much . I am quite sad that I can't enjoy the new Series, I have been waiting oh so long for some new Trek. Looks like I never will get any new Trek in the spirit of the TNG/DS9/VOY-Era, Paramount seems to have moved on.

No Franchise lives forever.

I've been told that the Orville seems to scratch that old-school itch, feeling very much like a Trek show where they're not following the elite flagship of the Federation but the average joes in the rest of starfleet.



Not that I can comment personally. In the UK we have Discovery on Netflix but no way I know of to see the Orville.

I agree that the Trek feel isn't there though. It's more like Mass Effect. Change the ships to Systems Alliance, make Burnham choose every renegade interrupt. Change Klingons to Batarians, you have the start of a really good Mass Effect prequel game.

[Avatarian]

This is what I posted on Facebook in response to many comments of negativity:

Am I the only person who didn't hate this? Yeah, I wish they'd put on TV but let's set that aside and look at the actual content. First the Klingons, Ok, they don't look like what we are used to. But I felt they were done with a bit more gravitas and nuance than we saw of Klingons a lot in later Trek, it reminded me a lot of Star Trek VI. Plus they actually speak in Klingon which is cool. The show Looks amazing and I don't think anyone could disagree with the fact that this is the best looking Trek Show yet. I do think the weakest aspect is the stuff going on with the crew, as I felt some of the attempts at chemistry were a little forced but it wasn't god awful and Voyager did way worse. As for those whining that it doesn't "Respect Roddenberry's vision" Star Trek hasn't kept in lockstep with what Gene wanted since mid-TNG. While Gene will always be respected for the concepts he created, he could be a very poor storyteller, especially by early TNG. Some of the worst episodes of Trek were heavily influenced by Gene, not to take away from some of his triumphs such as Balance of Terror, but he was far from perfect. Some of his rules and ideas were ridiculous such as having humanity be perfect, flawless beings who didn't fight with each other. Not only does that rob the possibility of good drama, it completely misunderstands human nature. If we ever do create a semi-utopian society it won't be because we've all biologically evolved to the point we are "above" conflict. It will be because we have created a society in which disagreements and conflict can be handled without violence for the most part but it won't mean that everyone is perfect. This is the kind of thinking that made the cast of early TNG a bunch of smug, condescending pricks. This is why DS9 was one of the best Trek series, because it did believe in a glorious future, but wasn't afraid to push the boundaries of that Utopia. Watch SFDebris if you want to hear more on this point. I also liked that it DID keep to a more Original Series era policy on the Prime Directive, where it was very important but not used as an excuse to ignore the suffering of other species when we could fix the problem without tainting their culture. Finally, I liked for the most part how they talked about race and culture. In particular one of the captain's comments about her lieutenant could easily come off as prejudiced until we learn that his species was specifically bred for a particular purpose. It would then be prejudiced to assume that, like humans, his species does not share this particular trait. This is reminiscent of the challenge of the Borg, how would we deal with a species that in a certain way is fundamentally different from?

[GandALF]

Yeah, I don't think Burnham's approach is entirely illogical, it is the "Vulcan hello" after all. I think they actually address some of the weird things about the TNG Klingons. With the soviet TOS Klingons you kind of get the impression that the military officers would be more aggressive because they're defending a hostile regime while there are more Gorkons among the civilians, but with TNG you learn that every Tom, Dick and Martok is obsessed with violence. So how do you realistically deal with an entire civilisation that worships war? How do you have diplomatic relations with a people that views "we come in peace" as anathema to everything they believe in?

[Fixer]

Don't worry about people having different opinions on things. Sometimes people will love or hate something for the exact same reason and excessive nitpicking is half the fun of a sci-fi fandom . I actually liked SG:U and thought it's latter season 2 was getting really good but can see why fans of the original SG series didn't.

As for Burnham. Yes there was a logic to her reasoning but she failed as a first officer. It was not her call to make and her many actions seem only to have made the situation worse.

Ultimately she failed in her duty as a Star Fleet officer. However this isn't the bizarre situation where Archer does something utterly moronic and somehow the universe agrees with him that he made the right choice. Both the poorly lit Federation council and Burnham were entirely correct in their summation of her guilt at the end. This monumental failure was actually an intentional character point.

I am somewhat intrigued about how they're going to make a character that has shown to be so poor an officer into a series regular.

[Antiboyscout]

I seem to recall the Vulcans being pacifists in old Trek. Having a shoot first on EVERY Klingon ship you encounter ANYWHERE including Klingon territory policy seems like... not Pacifism.

[Dînadan]

I seem to recall the Vulcans being pacifists in old Trek. Having a shoot first on EVERY Klingon ship you encounter ANYWHERE including Klingon territory policy seems like... not Pacifism.

Presumably they use the same definition of 'pascifism' that the Doctor in Doctor Who does despite him being listed under 'cause of death' on a ludicrously high number of entries on the Fatality Index

[King of the owls]

I enjoyed Discovery for the most part. I questions some of the aesthetic choices but hey it looks good.

Regarding Burnham I can see why some might find her irredeemable. In their attempt to show a deeply flawed human make a fatal error.(well errors but whatever.) the writers might of went a bit overboard with making her flawed in some cases. Still I don't think she's comparable to Archer or Janeway just yet. If the narrative turns around and says "haha jk she was totally right in her actions and everyone that disagreed with her is a coward or secretly evil." then yeah but that hasn't happened yet.

Overall this is decent start. I personally would have preferred something not set so close to TOS's time period but hey this could work.

[Dînadan]

Overall this is decent start. I personally would have preferred something not set so close to TOS's time period but hey this could work.

What could be interesting is if a season or two in they start bringing in things that look like stuff from the 60s and having the characters oohing and arring over how high tech it is even though to us the viewers it looks more primitive.

[technobabbler]

imo, the biggest problem with STD is that it's a prequel. We know what the universe will look like in 10 years unless the showrunners pull a bait-and-switch. Sure I want to know how the story plays out, but not enough to get another streaming service.

Had Discovery been set after Voyager, with a story arc of the Klingon Empire collapsing into 24 houses and perhaps Tvkuma reassembling the Empire with the same motivations and maybe with a subplot on how post-Dominion War Earth is suffering from scarcity for the first time in 200 years cuz of *technobabble,* now you have some genuine tension. sign me up!

Prediction: yadda-yadda-yadda, finale = cameo of the USS Enterprise, Burnham and Garth of Izar clash with the Klingons at Axanar. Fed-Klingon Cold War II. James T. Kirk enter stage right.

[cilantro]

I watched the two Episodes on Netflix (for free, my Brother has an account he can share with me). It was decent SciFi. But it just wasn't the Star Trek I'm used to. It is not bad, or boring.... just not griping and entertaining for an old Trekie like me.

Maybe I'll get a Box Set on a Sale after the Series is done, just to put it next to my other boxes. And watch it one time to justify spending so much . I am quite sad that I can't enjoy the new Series, I have been waiting oh so long for some new Trek. Looks like I never will get any new Trek in the spirit of the TNG/DS9/VOY-Era, Paramount seems to have moved on.

No Franchise lives forever.

I've been told that the Orville seems to scratch that old-school itch, feeling very much like a Trek show where they're not following the elite flagship of the Federation but the average joes in the rest of starfleet.



Not that I can comment personally. In the UK we have Discovery on Netflix but no way I know of to see the Orville.

I agree that the Trek feel isn't there though. It's more like Mass Effect. Change the ships to Systems Alliance, make Burnham choose every renegade interrupt. Change Klingons to Batarians, you have the start of a really good Mass Effect prequel game.

I agree that Discovery really doesn't have that Star Trek feel but I feel like the biggest thing was that it was set in the wrong time. Now, here me out:

I have been seeing other people, on other sites wondering if it would've been better if the Discovery was set like 50-100 years after Picard's time. Then that way the technology (like holograms) could be more easily explained and also why these Klingons are so different, etc....

But like you said, the show just doesn't have any Star Trek feel to it and I just can't come to terms on how totally weird looking the Klingons are and also that the technology just doesn't fit very well into what we knew Starfleet had- even in the TNG/DS9/VOY era as well.