Star Trek changing direction

[CharlesPhipps]

I'm sure Wesley did save them. They became Maquis.

I'm sure they'll be fine.

[Zargon]

Oh...think CBS would ever do Star Trek WesKim? A Wesley Crusher and Harry Kim space buddy show?

[Thebestoftherest]

A character that is way too important and one that need to change.

[jeffpiatt]

My honest opinion is that Star Trek has become The Walking Dead of sci-fi. A show that was past its sell by date the moment that Negan killed Glen and yet that was four/five seasons ago. I no longer watch it despite being a die-hard fan of it once upon time, I know no one who has a good word to say about it, and yet pre-Covid they were still making it. I am going to presume it still makes enough money to warrant it coming back, but that is NOT the same thing as being a success.
I find that is a problem with many American shows - the network just does not want to stop it and thus it continues until everyone hates it. Compare to British TV shows where any show that has two seasons of 6 episodes each is considered a hit. The British version of The Office is a great comparison between the two.

I do see your point, and I think this was an issue back when Voyager was ending and Enterprise was starting, however I think it's still far to early to write off the current Star Trek series, Discovery currently has 29 episodes, Picard has 10, and Lower Deck and Strange New Worlds will also have 10, so if we were to compare to just one finished Star Trek series, combined that basically means we're up to Season 3 of The Next Generation, and I don't need to remind anyone on how much of a rocky start that had with its first 2 seasons.

And I agree with GreyICE that if The Next Generation was airing today with the current Internet culture, it would be Destroyed!

people hated Next Generation when it first aired. Triangulem audio uploaded a pre premiere video for syndication networks basically explaining that Next Gen was aimed at old fans and expanding the fandom with "new fans" also a bunch of facts to calm the treekies that might be sending you hate mail like saying that they were proud to work with Gene Roddenberry from a guy who clearly never had the displesure.

[Link8909]

people hated Next Generation when it first aired. Triangulem audio uploaded a pre premiere video for syndication networks basically explaining that Next Gen was aimed at old fans and expanding the fandom with "new fans" also a bunch of facts to calm the treekies that might be sending you hate mail like saying that they were proud to work with Gene Roddenberry from a guy who clearly never had the displesure.

Indeed, and while I have yet to watch "What We Left Behind", I heard that the documentary has a segment where they list some of the many complaints and criticisms back when Deep Space Nine was starting.

[Captain Crimson]

My honest opinion is that Star Trek has become The Walking Dead of sci-fi. A show that was past its sell by date the moment that Negan killed Glen and yet that was four/five seasons ago. I no longer watch it despite being a die-hard fan of it once upon time, I know no one who has a good word to say about it, and yet pre-Covid they were still making it. I am going to presume it still makes enough money to warrant it coming back, but that is NOT the same thing as being a success.
I find that is a problem with many American shows - the network just does not want to stop it and thus it continues until everyone hates it. Compare to British TV shows where any show that has two seasons of 6 episodes each is considered a hit. The British version of The Office is a great comparison between the two.

I do see your point, and I think this was an issue back when Voyager was ending and Enterprise was starting, however I think it's still far to early to write off the current Star Trek series, Discovery currently has 29 episodes, Picard has 10, and Lower Deck and Strange New Worlds will also have 10, so if we were to compare to just one finished Star Trek series, combined that basically means we're up to Season 3 of The Next Generation, and I don't need to remind anyone on how much of a rocky start that had with its first 2 seasons.

And I agree with GreyICE that if The Next Generation was airing today with the current Internet culture, it would be Destroyed!

people hated Next Generation when it first aired. Triangulem audio uploaded a pre premiere video for syndication networks basically explaining that Next Gen was aimed at old fans and expanding the fandom with "new fans" also a bunch of facts to calm the treekies that might be sending you hate mail like saying that they were proud to work with Gene Roddenberry from a guy who clearly never had the displesure.

It is true TNG skimped on a bit of their own lore, but it's also equally true to say that at this point, with an extra generation's worth of lore, maintaining the continuity is going to be much, much harder, and since ST is a forward-looking show, it makes more sense to keep giving us sequels, not prequels. I hate to say it, it really all goes back to ENT. It was just such a poor idea from the get-go. And yet even that had more room to maneuver than STD originally did, hence being a smart move to head into the future.

Frankly, however, I see little of the same cultural trends present today that made TOS and later TNG a success, which is cynicism and... mostly the same themes resonating in a movie from the '80s, like TNES. Bastion was the last great dreamer, and I feel that's more relevant than ever. There are no great dreamers and the late stage of capitalism and downfall of the Big Tech economy into vulture businesses has killed creativity and inspiration. That, and Disney taking over everything.

If you can look past the SJW politics, modern ST is... okay, maybe above average at times. The lows are nowhere near as bad as they used to be, in the past and today, but the highs are nowhere near where they used to be either. And I find it very hard to suspect we will get that. That also included a certain level of respect for the enemy, given that when TOS began, you could at least admire the USSR's achievements and culture if not the actual government.

Since we turned inward in the '90s, no one has respect for the enemy anymore. We see too much evil in the part of ourselves we dislike most. And that's very tricky to overcome.

[Riedquat]

I hate to say it, it really all goes back to ENT. It was just such a poor idea from the get-go. And yet even that had more room to maneuver than STD originally did, hence being a smart move to head into the future.

I don't think ENT was a fundamentally poor idea. As a concept it had some things going for it that Discovery never did - making the first steps into an unknown that had become the day to day norm by the time of TOS, and hence Disco. It was set an an exciting point where space travel had developed enough to make those firsts plausible, for them to (supposed to have) some idea of what they were doing, but not enough that they had become routine. And just every now and the ENT seemed to remember that, only to lose it again.

[Link8909]

I don't think ENT was a fundamentally poor idea. As a concept it had some things going for it that Discovery never did - making the first steps into an unknown that had become the day to day norm by the time of TOS, and hence Disco. It was set an an exciting point where space travel had developed enough to make those firsts plausible, for them to (supposed to have) some idea of what they were doing, but not enough that they had become routine. And just every now and then ENT seemed to remember that, only to lose it again.

Very true, I love Enterprises early exploration premise, and I really with they were allowed to have real creative freedom from the start and tell that premise properly, as well as seeing the forming of the Federation and Romulan War.

There's nothing wrong with having a prequel story, but I feel that a good prequel story is one that expands on the lore and gives us more or new context to pre-existing stories or background in-universe information, and while I personally enjoy Discoverys first two seasons, aside from the Klingon War the series didn't really need to be a prequel.

I am however looking forward to Strange New Worlds, not only did Discovery sell me on their Captain Pike, Spock and Number One to want to see more, but is a great chance to expand on Pike's time commanding the Enterprise and the crew of that era.

[Captain Crimson]

I hate to say it, it really all goes back to ENT. It was just such a poor idea from the get-go. And yet even that had more room to maneuver than STD originally did, hence being a smart move to head into the future.

I don't think ENT was a fundamentally poor idea. As a concept it had some things going for it that Discovery never did - making the first steps into an unknown that had become the day to day norm by the time of TOS, and hence Disco. It was set an an exciting point where space travel had developed enough to make those firsts plausible, for them to (supposed to have) some idea of what they were doing, but not enough that they had become routine. And just every now and the ENT seemed to remember that, only to lose it again.

ENT should have been a mix of B5, which was the coalescing of a UFP like coalition through warfare, and SG, which at the time, was still ongoing, and it would have predated the Tau'ri getting their own ships, in heading out into and exploring the galaxy. Instead, it was written too much like what we'd got on VOY and to an extent, on TNG, the smug moralizing and high-tech. The whole winds up being lesser than its parts.

By taking inspiration from B5, I mean that the NX should have no shields whatsoever. B5 thrived under that conceit. Give it durable armor that keeps wearing down as the series advances, necessitating the occasional return to drydock to be refitted. I mean, H! With only some minor tweaking this could slide easily into the two-parter of Damage/Minefield. Plus, the Vulcans acting as the Asgard, how is that not an awesome idea? And I know ST was built on a lot of Mr. Roddenberry's unrealistic mandates, but I think since Terra Prime already focused on projectile weapons, bring in more guns instead of DEWs. As it is, the phase pistols are an off-brand knock-off of PPGs. A gun like a zat'nik'tel, though, could be feasible at this stage of human development as the precursor to phasers. I mean, Mr. Braga already wanted to try something like the MACOs, so do that early.

Such a shame.

[CharlesPhipps]

According to the Behind The Scenes, the writers of Star Trek were people who didn't want to write anything but TNG. Ron Moore said that Voyager and ENT both suffered from people who got annoyed when you told them they couldn't use Ferengi, Klingons, or things they'd been writing forever or repurposed scripts with the same technobabble as before. It's why the technology in Enterprise is the same as 200 years later.