Star Trek 3: Search for Spock

[cdrood]

I think the simple reason you can't "remake" Star Trek III is because the elements left on the table that could have made it great, still require all the history that went into these characters in the first place.

If the Abrams films did anything wrong it's that they told us Kirk and Spock have a special relationship, but never really showed it. We spent more than a decade watching Shatner and Nimoy in reruns. We knew the relationship backwards and forwards. You have episodes like "CourtMartial" where to Spock, the only logical conclusion was Kirk's innocence even when a computer (which he likely programmed much of) told him otherwise. In the Abrams films, the friendship seemed to build off camera so the audience wasn't connected to it.

[Thebestoftherest]

I think the simple reason you can't "remake" Star Trek III is because the elements left on the table that could have made it great, still require all the history that went into these characters in the first place.

If the Abrams films did anything wrong it's that they told us Kirk and Spock have a special relationship, but never really showed it. We spent more than a decade watching Shatner and Nimoy in reruns. We knew the relationship backwards and forwards. You have episodes like "CourtMartial" where to Spock, the only logical conclusion was Kirk's innocence even when a computer (which he likely programmed much of) told him otherwise. In the Abrams films, the friendship seemed to build off camera so the audience wasn't connected to it.

Plus Abraham Kirk spend too much time as a self important blow hard to believe Spock would defend his character.

[Link8909]

Speaking of relationships, something I really love about The Search for Spock is it showed the comradery between the rest of the crew, that not only will Kirk throw his career away for his friend, but so will the rest of the crew, because their friendships are just as strong as Kirk's.

While The Original Series definitely got to show the friendship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, the other characters rarely got to have as much time in the spotlight or as much development as the trio did, the series wasn't really an ensemble like future entry would be and felt more like "The Kirk Show," and even in The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan that was the case.

However, as Chuck pointed out in his review, Harve Bennett really put more emphasis on those characters and gave them more importances in Search for Spock, which really elevated their characters overall in the mainstreams eyes from just being there going forward into future films, and retroactively gave their roles in The Original Series more context.

[CharlesPhipps]

Kruge is unironically one of the best villains.

[clearspira]

Kruge is unironically one of the best villains.

What I liked about the movie TOS Klingons is that they do not behave ''completely'' like the TNG Klingons. The building blocks are there but as Chuck once pointed out you cannot yet replace the words honour and courage with the word ''penis'' and have the dialogue make just as much sense.

Kruge, Gorkon and Chang are good examples of this.

[Scififan]

The thing about Kruge is he's essentially a "working man" Klingon warrior. He's got a small ship and crew. Whether his mission is authorized or not, he's clearly expendable. Even his attitude towards Genesis shows this. While destroying a planet might be a valid display of power on occasion, it's no way to build or expand an Empire. You conquer planets because they have resources you want: food, minerals, labor force, etc. Destroying them outright does the Empire no good. In Star Wars, the whole point of "The Tarkin Doctrine" wasn't to go around destroying planets. It was to let people know you're willing an able to and let their fear do the rest. Kruge is a thug, not a conqueror. He revels in the destructive part of his job, but has no vision beyond it. From that standpoint, it's fitting that he's not a great villain because being epic is lost on him.

"Fear will keep the systems in check, fear of this battle station".

[Madner Kami]

I always found Kruuge's obsession with the Genesis device intriguing, until I realized that it's potential as a weapon is completely meaningless. In a reality where a ship can reach superluminal speed, you already have the world ender weapon in your hand... I mean, even a subluminal multi-thousand ton vehicle at relativistic speeds is an instant game over for any territorially oriented defense. And then there is the simple reality of the warp-reactor, which obviously uses antimatter in sizeable quantaties and everyone and their mother uses it liberally, so antimatter is in abundance. Drop a kilogram of that stuff into the atmosphere of any planet and *world-ending-kaboom*

[Nealithi]

I always found Kruuge's obsession with the Genesis device intriguing, until I realized that it's potential as a weapon is completely meaningless. In a reality where a ship can reach superluminal speed, you already have the world ender weapon in your hand... I mean, even a subluminal multi-thousand ton vehicle at relativistic speeds is an instant game over for any territorially oriented defense. And then there is the simple reality of the warp-reactor, which obviously uses antimatter in sizeable quantaties and everyone and their mother uses it liberally, so antimatter is in abundance. Drop a kilogram of that stuff into the atmosphere of any planet and *world-ending-kaboom*

The setting always seemed to ignore such an event. With things like getting too close to a planet knocking you out of warp and treating warp as though it was a work around to regular flight. Not super fast. IE anything entering the warp field is treated as moving at its normal STL speed. But I have no evidence, just noting how no one even thinks like it is a possibility.
And antimatter is treated as both a big deal and not all at once. The dream episode of Voyager where they are lead to believe there is a warpcore breach in progress. They tossed a containment shield on it. My father asked WTF? Because the warpcore detonating was supposed to be all the ship's energy. I pointed out they use fuel. Deuterium and anti-deuterium. The warp core is just where they mix the two. So all that goes off is what is in the chamber at the time. Not the whole supply at once.
Therefore it seems anti-matter is relatively contained as far as the Trek universe is concerned.

[CharlesPhipps]

Mind you, it's like the fallout-less atomic bomb. Kruge could wipe out every planet in the Federation and still have habital worlds for the Klingons to take over.

I maintain that is NOT Kruge's goal, though. I don't think Kruge actually wants to wipe out the Federation.

He thinks the Federation wants to wipe out THEM. He thinks he's maintaining nuclear parity with them and that's what makes the whole thing all the more interesting. He assumes Genesis is a weapon of mass destruction by design and is doing a daring mission to keep the West from gaining atomic weapon superiority over the East.

[AndrewGPaul]

Meanwhile, a century later and the Federation demonstrates the ability to rejuvenate stars* and no-one cares; it's just the backdrop for a fairly silly psychic powers plot.

*although apparently no-one told the effects crew what a star is...