Is Disney finally ditching WOKE politics?

[CmdrKing]

It's always weird when people complain about changing the ethnic background of Superman, a character whose core is in being an immigrant raised in idealized American values who thus becomes the best of all worlds. He's what America wants to imagine it is, where anyone can come here and thrive if they work hard while also still keeping the core of where they came from with them.
(This of course is a self-answering question, but folks aren't ready for that conversation.)

Now Batman is another story. I think the fact he comes from Old Money is integral to his character, and Gotham being not!New York, Old Money means white. Making him anything else has a lot of cascading changes to the core of how the character functions that, while probably really good stories, would make him hard to recognize as the same character rather than a new character inspired by Batman.

[Riedquat]

It's always weird when people complain about changing the ethnic background of Superman, a character whose core is in being an immigrant raised in idealized American values who thus becomes the best of all worlds. He's what America wants to imagine it is, where anyone can come here and thrive if they work hard while also still keeping the core of where they came from with them.
(This of course is a self-answering question, but folks aren't ready for that conversation.)

That's why it would be fine if we were talking about creating a brand new character (although you'd still have issues with "different ethnic background implies immigrant then?" - the USA has plenty of people of most ethnic backgrounds who were born there).

"Folks aren't ready for that conversation" sounds like you're trying to avoid having it.

[Riedquat]

I think Superman's white skin and black hair are as revelant as James Bond being black haired.

Daniel Craig could pull it off.

He pulled it off in spite of it IMO. Superman has a very well-defined appearance, even where it doesn't really matter to the character. Is he still Superman if not wearing red and blue when being Superman and not Clark Kent? Is he Superman if you change Clark Kent to a different name?

Mind you, I admit full bias that the Superman equivalent is black in my books. I used Rosario Dawson as the model for his daughter.

Not watching much these days the only thing I've seen her in she was orange and blue

I dunno, how many versions of Robin Hood have there been? How many of King Arthur? You have a black Superman in Kansas who grows up to be a reporter in Metropolis and marries black (or white) Lois Lane. He can fly, shoot eyebeamz, and punch people.

They're all steeped in lots of sometimes contradicting legends anyway with plenty of further stories piled on on top of that later so there's less of a definitive version of them, just generalities and some names and a limited set of well-known stories that leave plenty of room for more. Although a black King Arthur would certainly result in rolling eyes for England at that time. It can get, erm, interesting with historical (whether legendary or not) stuff. Have an 18th century ship? The problem there on film is more likely going to be the other way around, there'll probably be a disproportionate number of white crew.

How much does being a white dude contribute? Not as a way of saying how much is different but how much is the same?

How much would being black contribute? Why change it?

Maybe it'd be a good change, maybe not.

That's the thing, is it just making it a change for the sake of it? What's the motivation for making the change? And why not just create new characters instead?

[Captain Crimson]

Chuck hates Michael Burnham.

Okay, I don't get how that's relevant, since Mr. Chuck has opinions we all respect even if agree or disagree, more or less. So, I call non-sequitur.

As for retcons with Spock? That's like 90% of Spock's history. "Oh, this is my brother you've never met. My father is ambassador to Earth and I'm half human."

I do want to add something here, however, in that fans, especially the high-thinking nerdy types as we are, tend to be very good at filling in the blanks and finding subtext if we're motivated, so if there is clear respect towards fans from the management team, even affection, many of us will meet them halfway. Never forget we are essentially their customers, and it's no wonder many modern businesses are less competitive if they're not trying to please their customers, no matter how uptight, even nasty they think we are. It doesn't matter, you can't make money insulting your customers. This is why I roll my eyes at leftists in positions over corporate sales. They hate capitalism, and it shows, so they consistently sabotage themselves at every turn.

Who's to know? I didn't have a problem with Jyn Erso, and Rey's problem was really that she's completely over-powered. So taken in isolation no issue. But when you start getting several characters who seem to fit an agenda then people rightly start to wonder. The backlash against those people who are wondering just reinforces their opinion.

This goes hand-in-hand with their stubborn refusal to continue SWL from willing authors, since it ties into my point above about the clear lack of respect toward their customer base or H, even their own business partners. It's a ruthless need to merchandise, and look at how the sales figures aren't doing so well. To the kids today, who they've used as a shield from criticism, SW is just another SF market among many, and it's too bland for their interests, and many older fans have walked out due to those poor practices. Let Del Rey and Marvel publish new SWL books and comics, the DSW books and comics have no stakes, and their sales have been hit quite hard with the discontinuation of the EU, but they won't. Hasbro before has held them directly to blame for decreased sales with toys. They got greedy and full of themselves, thinking they could do SW better than Mr. Lucas. I'd say they have not. You may consider that a hot take, but writing gaffes aside, the fact LF had better sales under him should prove that. You may never get another novel like TCS under Disney LF, but you'll also never get another KOTOR.

I have no problems with Jyn Erso so much as perhaps the normie mentality here. Most won't know or care that they plundered it from SWL lore. But the core issue is, as I've said, the lies that went into building the DSCW, going all the way back to 2008, IMO. Mr. Filoni ragging nonstop on the EU's canon status to deflect criticism from himself and onto Mr. Lucas (and while Mr. Lucas did consider the EU a parallel universe, he never used the word "canon" because he considered it no less SW). Then some of the claims made in 2014, they got rid of the EU since they wanted more creativity, so they stated, but there's less now, not more. They wanted the new movies to be a surprise, but it's no surprise to me at all since I'm deep into EU lore, it's just stale unless you can pretend it's a parallel-universe version of SWL lore, which is how I'm able to keep going, though it is a strain. And the nonstop "firsties" irk me on a personal level. It's hard to think LF themselves are not deliberately engineering some of these to single out and marginalize the older fans, that they've written us off as bigots. We shouldn't be okay with this kind of blatant dishonesty towards the older fans or children.

You said you dislike unnecessary retcons, but since this is just reshuffling and diluting older lore to the masses, acting like they invented it or made it better, it's the same thing to me, even though normies won't get that. The ruthless marketing blitz is part of the issue since it's drowned out and buried most of past lore. That's the huge problem. "More diversity" in SW was pointless given how good the EU was on that front, making it even more unnecessary retcons. You can have the new branding you want, but this is just spite in how they've completely ran over the little guy, such as the EU fandom, the OT cast, their business associates...

[Thebestoftherest]

What is DSWC?

[Captain Crimson]

What is DSWC?

My word for Disney Star Wars Canon.

[Rocketboy1313]

Might as well post my duel treatise on the topic of characters and race.
Certainly won't end this slap fight, but it will add some dimension to it.

Batman, Wonder Woman, and Identity Politics
https://rocketboy1313.blogspot.com/2016 ... ntity.html

The Core Appeal of Batman
https://rocketboy1313.blogspot.com/2017 ... atman.html

[Thebestoftherest]

What is DSWC?

My word for Disney Star Wars Canon.

Thanks

[Captain Crimson]

The OP seemed to be from Overlord DVD, and perhaps I'm just biased, but I don't trust him at all. I think most menacers, at least the big YouTubers, are just in it for hate politics and merchandising, which is ironic since they claim to hate it from LF. You guys need to look in the mirror.

And speaking from my own experiences in 2014, I don't want the DSWST scrapped, I don't want the actual Disney fans upset by that. All that decanonizing does is lead to upset fans. If it really is broken, as the popular consensus is, then fix it, it can be done, but you can't ignore the stuff you don't like, such as TCS from the EU. Do I like it? No. But it's history. Fix it, and leave the EU alone. Just more dumping on SWL and SWL fans in treating it as a landfill to shove failures and unwanted projects, anything that's non-canon garbage, is not the way. Enough.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

If diverse casting isn’t such a big deal for some of you then why do care at all?

Here’s my reaction to when they cast a black man as Superman:

“Okay, whatever, hope he’s great in the role.”

Then I move the fuck on. Whereas assholes like Doomcock will post several videos about how the left has ruined entertainment.

I've no problem with casting per se. Few people do. I do have a problem with casting for political reasons, because of an agenda unrelated to the story, and for unnecessary retconning.

And you think casting white people is never politically motivated or part of an agenda? That's the problem. You see majority as default and everything else as an intrusion that needs to justify itself.