Wrath of Khan discussion

[Fianna]

While I agree that there are more aliens in Starfleet than the makeup budget allows us to see, I still think the Federation is human-dominated. The very idea seems to be a human one, and when we hear where a Vulcan, Andorian or Betazed is from, it’s usually Vulcan, Andor or Batazed, whereas humans tend to come from Gobbledygook Five. They usually only come from Earth if the Enterprise is actually at Earth.

Though we've seen that there are a lot of alien civilizations in Star Trek where everyone looks identical to humans. Perhaps a lot of the "humans" we see in Starfleet are actually from places like the A Taste of Armageddon planet, or the Code of Honor planet, or so forth.

[AndrewGPaul]

Was Code of Honor the one full of black actors playing dodgy stereotypes? (that is unfortunately the one Netflix UK is using as an autoplay clip when you select TNG) I admit I assumed they were also humans, from colonies which had previously lost contact; like the planet o' Oirish clichés.

Still, I take your point.

[TGLS]

Was Code of Honor the one full of black actors playing dodgy stereotypes?

Yes.

[Zatman]

I guess I'm spoiled from reading the Genesis Wave book series, but even that aside, I wouldn't think Genesis would be something the Federation would readily pursue. McCoy's immediate reaction as to use it in a hostile manner proves the point perfectly. It's a weapon that leaves behind a custom-tailored ecosystem. It's like a neutron bomb, but with replacement of the infrastructure too. In fact, if something as complex as a tree can be programmed, then buildings, roads, even entire automated factories could be easily programmed in to the Genesis matrix too.

[Link8909]

I guess I'm spoiled from reading the Genesis Wave book series, but even that aside, I wouldn't think Genesis would be something the Federation would readily pursue. McCoy's immediate reaction as to use it in a hostile manner proves the point perfectly. It's a weapon that leaves behind a custom-tailored ecosystem. It's like a neutron bomb, but with replacement of the infrastructure too. In fact, if something as complex as a tree can be programmed, then buildings, roads, even entire automated factories could be easily programmed in to the Genesis matrix too.

I personally do find it surprising and interesting that something like Genesis made it so far into development considering the destructive potential of it, it's also interesting that later on we will find out that other potentially dangerous things like Genetic Engineering and the Omega Molecules will have strict bans on them, but the one thing I've always found interesting is that this potential doomsday weapon was all the work of the United "we come in peace" Federation of Planets, and not some outside force like the Klingons or Romulans, and it's easy to see why Kruge and the Klingons in the next films were so mistrustful of the Federation, they say they're peaceful yet build such destructive weapons.

[CharlesPhipps]

I guess I'm spoiled from reading the Genesis Wave book series, but even that aside, I wouldn't think Genesis would be something the Federation would readily pursue. McCoy's immediate reaction as to use it in a hostile manner proves the point perfectly. It's a weapon that leaves behind a custom-tailored ecosystem. It's like a neutron bomb, but with replacement of the infrastructure too. In fact, if something as complex as a tree can be programmed, then buildings, roads, even entire automated factories could be easily programmed in to the Genesis matrix too.

I personally do find it surprising and interesting that something like Genesis made it so far into development considering the destructive potential of it, it's also interesting that later on we will find out that other potentially dangerous things like Genetic Engineering and the Omega Molecules will have strict bans on them, but the one thing I've always found interesting is that this potential doomsday weapon was all the work of the United "we come in peace" Federation of Planets, and not some outside force like the Klingons or Romulans, and it's easy to see why Kruge and the Klingons in the next films were so mistrustful of the Federation, they say they're peaceful yet build such destructive weapons.

Eh, it's not a weapon, though. It's something that can be weaponized. Science is like that.

[Zatman]

Again, I'm a bit spoiled with the Genesis Wave books, but the initial research team was private, only going to the Federation when they needed the Regula Station and the asteroid hollowed out. I can imagine that the advantages were heavily touted, and perhaps the scientists didn't even think about the destructive implications only seeing the good. Then when it made it to the council, it wasn't treated any differently than any other terraforming or technology proposal and probably skimmed over and given no more scrutiny than anything else working through the bureaucracy. In the books, there's a rather impressive Genesis technology report that is completely consistent with the technology we see in Star Trek. In it, it makes it clear that the technology was considered highly classified and any attempts to access or use it by Federation citizens would result in mandatory life imprisonment.

[Madner Kami]

I personally do find it surprising and interesting that something like Genesis made it so far into development considering the destructive potential of it, it's also interesting that later on we will find out that other potentially dangerous things like Genetic Engineering and the Omega Molecules will have strict bans on them, but the one thing I've always found interesting is that this potential doomsday weapon was all the work of the United "we come in peace" Federation of Planets, and not some outside force like the Klingons or Romulans, and it's easy to see why Kruge and the Klingons in the next films were so mistrustful of the Federation, they say they're peaceful yet build such destructive weapons.

You can use a kitchen knife as a weapon. I can McGuver you a quite destructive gun from nothing but some pressurized air, a pipe and a potato. One man's fertilizer is another man's basis for improvised explosives. It's perfectly possible, that the actually peace-loving Federation never even thought about the implementation of that device as a weapon. Naturally a person who grew up in a society of martial prowess and constant conflict sees the issue from the other end of the table though.

[Link8909]

Again, I'm a bit spoiled with the Genesis Wave books, but the initial research team was private, only going to the Federation when they needed the Regula Station and the asteroid hollowed out. I can imagine that the advantages were heavily touted, and perhaps the scientists didn't even think about the destructive implications only seeing the good. Then when it made it to the council, it wasn't treated any differently than any other terraforming or technology proposal and probably skimmed over and given no more scrutiny than anything else working through the bureaucracy. In the books, there's a rather impressive Genesis technology report that is completely consistent with the technology we see in Star Trek. In it, it makes it clear that the technology was considered highly classified and any attempts to access or use it by Federation citizens would result in mandatory life imprisonment.

You can use a kitchen knife as a weapon. I can McGuver you a quite destructive gun from nothing but some pressurized air, a pipe and a potato. One man's fertilizer is another man's basis for improvised explosives. It's perfectly possible, that the actually peace-loving Federation never even thought about the implementation of that device as a weapon. Naturally a person who grew up in a society of martial prowess and constant conflict sees the issue from the other end of the table though.

Very true on both counts, my comments weren't criticisms, more of an observation, not only looking at it from the perspective of the Klingons, but seeing that a well intentioned invention can have dire repercussions.

[Independent George]

As Isaac Arthur often says, there is no such thing as an unarmed spaceship - and he's usually talking about ships traveling at a fraction of c. When you have warp drive, even an unarmed freighter is a planet killer. Genesis really isn't any more destructive than anything else in the arsenal, except maybe that it makes much more destructive tactics practical now that you can magic up a brand new ecosystem after sterilizing the surface.

The thing is, it also means you have less incentive to fight in the first place since you don't actually need to conquer territory to live in thanks to Genesis. Why bother taking somebody else's planet when you can mass produce a near infinite number of habitable worlds out of the barren rocks in your own backyard?