New Vegas

[FaxModem1]

I think the NCR is probably the most powerful faction in Fallout for this reason alone. Sure, it would be a massive war if the Fallout 4 Capital Wasteland Brotherhood went against them, but I think its their industrial capability that probably would seal the deal on an NCR victory. Laser rifles are cool and all, but you can make 50 service rifles for each one. Power armour is cool and all, but they're not invincible. I once saw a question on Quora note that in real life, power armour would make a great addition to a team but it would hardly be a one man army like it is implied in this game as any modern anti-tank rocket launcher or anti-material rifle would go straight through the thing. In real life it would be used like we are currently planning to use power armour in real life - allowing the user to carry more weapons and equipment for longer distances.

The only stumbling block is Liberty prime, but again, IRL it simply would not be the powerhouse it is portrayed as in game. The thing would have to reload for starters.

Well I see the power armour differently. They have many of the same uses as tanks. Sure there are counters to power armour. There are counters to tanks too. We still use them. But with power armour you can room to room clear a building, trench, or tunnel that a conventional tank simply can't fit inside. And coupled with a relatively light vertibird you have unparalleled rapid response you would not get with tanks alone.

As for Liberty Prime? He may be tough but he is neither invincible nor totally under control. Now I have not seen him deployed in FO3 yet. But I have seen him in FO4. And there he knew Boston landmarks to salute, while trying to save Anchorage Alaska. So his programming is badly hacked together. He kills a few mutants. Nothing the BoS hasn't done with a vertibird. Then it digs a tunnel so the power armour can get inside.

Going to note that Power Armor is limited to the amount of bodies you can put them in. The Brotherhood of Steel, even the Capital Wasteland branch, has....recruitment issues. These recruitment issues are due to their dogma, and their clear focus on maintaining their technology, not really implementing and advancing their technology, and not allowing peaceful advancement of other technologies by other settlements/factions/organizations. If we take their advancement into the Commonwealth as any indication, their entire logistics chain is down to, "We rob these local settlements of their food at gunpoint to feed ourselves."

That's going to make controlling any sort of large territory tricky, just due to manpower issues alone.

The NCR, while having problems with their Robber Baron style Brahmin Barons having a stranglehold on the NCR Congress and economy, their logistics are quite good in that they are expanding in all directions while improving the land they pass. The Powder Gangers, for instance, are convicted NCR prisoners working to rebuild the railroad connecting California to Nevada, in addition to their work to improve agriculture, electricity, and irrigation throughout the land. While the Brotherhood has the Prydwen, it is one of a kind and makes the Brotherhood utterly reliant on her, with no real support chain if that gets damaged or destroyed.

Though, considering both sides would have to go through the Legion before even meeting each other, I think their eventual conflict would be decades or even a century after the events of New Vegas. Time that the NCR can use to it's favor, while the Brotherhood would need a serious change in leadership to adapt to it.

[Nealithi]

Going to note that Power Armor is limited to the amount of bodies you can put them in. The Brotherhood of Steel, even the Capital Wasteland branch, has....recruitment issues. These recruitment issues are due to their dogma, and their clear focus on maintaining their technology, not really implementing and advancing their technology, and not allowing peaceful advancement of other technologies by other settlements/factions/organizations. If we take their advancement into the Commonwealth as any indication, their entire logistics chain is down to, "We rob these local settlements of their food at gunpoint to feed ourselves."

That's going to make controlling any sort of large territory tricky, just due to manpower issues alone.

The NCR, while having problems with their Robber Baron style Brahmin Barons having a stranglehold on the NCR Congress and economy, their logistics are quite good in that they are expanding in all directions while improving the land they pass. The Powder Gangers, for instance, are convicted NCR prisoners working to rebuild the railroad connecting California to Nevada, in addition to their work to improve agriculture, electricity, and irrigation throughout the land. While the Brotherhood has the Prydwen, it is one of a kind and makes the Brotherhood utterly reliant on her, with no real support chain if that gets damaged or destroyed.

Though, considering both sides would have to go through the Legion before even meeting each other, I think their eventual conflict would be decades or even a century after the events of New Vegas. Time that the NCR can use to it's favor, while the Brotherhood would need a serious change in leadership to adapt to it.

I will give you that the Prydwyn has some serious logistics hurdles. I was pointing out that power armor has a valid place on the battle field that should not be under estimated.

But looking at the NCR as we last see them in New Vegas. They seem to be lacking in air transport. Bear Force One is the only vertibird of theirs we see. None have been committed to the war with the Legion. And the Powder Gangers? The whole reason they are a gang is that the NCR leadership stripped that work gangs oversight below it ability to control. Then seemingly ignored the problem that they created. The NCR military leadership seems below that of a cub scout. They create issues with groups like the Powder Gangers. They assault the local tribes. But not enough to actually rout them. Just enough to piss them all off. Oh they have a mining area, cool. Deathclaws show up. NCR response? Eh, worry about it later if ever. Make friends with the local towns and villages. Even when you ticked off the tribes, gangs, and wild life around them? All so a leader can get some glory beating the Legion in the rematch. The NCR seems to have grown to a point of stagnation.
If the forces the Prydwyn had in the Commonwealth faced what NCR forces were in the Mojave. I would call it an even fight.

[Independent George]

The fundamental problem with power armor is that the technology to fuel, repair, restore, and maintain it in the wasteland is minimal. They're like the Tiger 2 in WW2 - sure, they're better on an individual basis than anything else on the battlefield, but you're lucky to have one running for every twenty T-34s or Shermans, and they're hardly invulnerable. In-game, the NCR Heavies removed all the powered components of captured power armor for that exact reason.

The Legion has no future beyond pillaging others to sustain itself. The second it stops expanding, it's going to turn on itself; there's no indication in-game that they have any sort of sustainable economy or political system going.

[Thebestoftherest]

The fundamental problem with power armor is that the technology to fuel, repair, restore, and maintain it in the wasteland is minimal. They're like the Tiger 2 in WW2 - sure, they're better on an individual basis than anything else on the battlefield, but you're lucky to have one running for every twenty T-34s or Shermans, and they're hardly invulnerable. In-game, the NCR Heavies removed all the powered components of captured power armor for that exact reason.

The Legion has no future beyond pillaging others to sustain itself. The second it stops expanding, it's going to turn on itself; there's no indication in-game that they have any sort of sustainable economy or political system going.

Plus, we don't see anything to suggest the Legion have radios so if a former tribe or two decided to abandon the legion during the battle for hoover dam or just not show up they wouldn't know. Think about it, you really think that they would send squads of legion soldiers to get them, they are planning on going to war they might not be able to spend those resources.

[clearspira]

The fundamental problem with power armor is that the technology to fuel, repair, restore, and maintain it in the wasteland is minimal. They're like the Tiger 2 in WW2 - sure, they're better on an individual basis than anything else on the battlefield, but you're lucky to have one running for every twenty T-34s or Shermans, and they're hardly invulnerable. In-game, the NCR Heavies removed all the powered components of captured power armor for that exact reason.

The Legion has no future beyond pillaging others to sustain itself. The second it stops expanding, it's going to turn on itself; there's no indication in-game that they have any sort of sustainable economy or political system going.

Yep. And this has gotten worse come Fallout 4 - how many fusion cores can the Brotherhood actually make vs how many are they salvaging from old generators? Although I think its worth noting in fairness that in-universe these cores probably last longer than a few in-game hours seeing as they've been powering these old generators just fine for 200 years. One core will probably keep your armour going for a long time - which I think is probably a good enough handwave as to why these cores do not show up in the previous games. Its not that they weren't there, its that they were just silently going about their jobs unnoticed.

[PerrySimm]

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Underrail and Pathfinder: Kingmaker
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"User crafting sandboxes" are only RPGs in Todd Howard's silly, strict definition of the term (which is simple LARPing within a game) that has nothing to do with the genre's tabletop origins.

Always on the lookout for underhyped indie games. Will need take a look at those sometime.

And yeah, "first" and "last" are phrases that invite the cited exception. Minecraft (which I do consider to be an RPG) was hardly the first game to implement all of its concepts. There was a limited crafting system in Ultima 7 (1992) that let the player turn a bit of wool laying around into band-aids, and more famously, let the player bake unlimited amounts of bread, which could then be stacked in giant piles and walked on to bypass some of the game's restrictions that were implemented merely with walls, elevation, or locked doors.

Anyway, my comments alluded to Fallout 4's sandbox elements, as well as the tendency for other recent AAA titles to add in such features without considering if they really enhance the game. Crafting systems can get especially bad -- they add to the grind, and make inventory management problems even worse. RPGs already have a lot of that to distract from the plot.

If the forces the Prydwyn had in the Commonwealth faced what NCR forces were in the Mojave. I would call it an even fight.

If there were ever to be such a battle between the eastern BoS and the NCR, it would probably be some place like Denver or Santa Fe, but the BoS would probably be wayyyyy past the end of their supply lines and forced to withdraw regardless of the outcome.

Based on geography, it's hard to see the NCR expanding past the Rockies, or even much to the north. One of the possible outcomes for New Vegas involves a future where the Great Khans resettle and govern Wyoming with tech from the Followers of the Apocalypse.

The Brotherhood of Steel moving too far west is also somewhat implausible. Apart from its tenuous relationship with the people it presumes to govern, the BoS is also notorious for infighting among themselves. Even though it looks consolidated in the Mid-Atlantic and New England Commonwealths, I doubt they will find much cooperation from the Chicago detachment, which may have been able to salvage an airship of its own to rival the Prydwyn.

[Nealithi]

If the forces the Prydwyn had in the Commonwealth faced what NCR forces were in the Mojave. I would call it an even fight.

If there were ever to be such a battle between the eastern BoS and the NCR, it would probably be some place like Denver or Santa Fe, but the BoS would probably be wayyyyy past the end of their supply lines and forced to withdraw regardless of the outcome.

Based on geography, it's hard to see the NCR expanding past the Rockies, or even much to the north. One of the possible outcomes for New Vegas involves a future where the Great Khans resettle and govern Wyoming with tech from the Followers of the Apocalypse.

The Brotherhood of Steel moving too far west is also somewhat implausible. Apart from its tenuous relationship with the people it presumes to govern, the BoS is also notorious for infighting among themselves. Even though it looks consolidated in the Mid-Atlantic and New England Commonwealths, I doubt they will find much cooperation from the Chicago detachment, which may have been able to salvage an airship of its own to rival the Prydwyn.

Okay first, you changed the battle. I used specific forces shown.

Second, 'salvaged'? I thought the BoS in DC built the Prydwyn, and stole a reactor from Rivet city?

[Beastro]

Always on the lookout for underhyped indie games. Will need take a look at those sometime.

And yeah, "first" and "last" are phrases that invite the cited exception. Minecraft (which I do consider to be an RPG) was hardly the first game to implement all of its concepts. There was a limited crafting system in Ultima 7 (1992) that let the player turn a bit of wool laying around into band-aids, and more famously, let the player bake unlimited amounts of bread, which could then be stacked in giant piles and walked on to bypass some of the game's restrictions that were implemented merely with walls, elevation, or locked doors.

Anyway, my comments alluded to Fallout 4's sandbox elements, as well as the tendency for other recent AAA titles to add in such features without considering if they really enhance the game. Crafting systems can get especially bad -- they add to the grind, and make inventory management problems even worse. RPGs already have a lot of that to distract from the plot.

The closest thing I've seen to a sandbox crafting RPG is Kenshi in that it really gives you the space to do what you want. You can build a settlement wherever you want, craft or not bother with it or go around doing other stuff solo or as a pack of guys. Even the lack of quests highlights the open ended nature of the roleplaying where everything you do is expected to be a part of your personal quest you lay out as you go along and not a chain of jobs you do for others.

The Legion has no future beyond pillaging others to sustain itself. The second it stops expanding, it's going to turn on itself; there's no indication in-game that they have any sort of sustainable economy or political system going.

People need to keep in mind the Legion wasn't created to last for long, only enough to conquer the NCR and then synthesize with it to create the new state Caesar feels is best to lead everyone into the future. The trouble is, like all ideology, what if things don't go the way he plans and the ideology doesn't pan out? From what we've seen of the Legion it gives you the impression that Caesar or no Caesar alive, they'll just leap on the heart of the NCR and assault it like all the woman they've raped.

Plus, we don't see anything to suggest the Legion have radios so if a former tribe or two decided to abandon the legion during the battle for hoover dam or just not show up they wouldn't know. Think about it, you really think that they would send squads of legion soldiers to get them, they are planning on going to war they might not be able to spend those resources.

I forget if they use them or not, but if they don't it's insane. Radio technology is simple and easy enough to keep going that it would survive a post-apoc world (Same with firearms with most being bolt actions given the simplicity to make, ease of maintenance and restriction on ammo wastage).

What we see in the NCR is a good picture of what a real collapse would look like, a hybrid of the 19th Century with maybe some older elements and others of our times that aren't complex enough to be made impractical.

[Thebestoftherest]

Beastro
They do perfer to avoid more advance science plus it might risk turning the legion against ceser.

[Beastro]

Beastro
They do perfer to avoid more advance science plus it might risk turning the legion against ceser.

Radio isn't all that advanced and it's military and strategic value is so great it would be more crippling than anything else they restrict like their emphasis on melee weapons over firearms.

To not use radio against an enemy that does use it is to blindfold yourself in a fight.