New Vegas

[Thebestoftherest]

Yeah, but I wonder if that is more from a technical point of view than lore wise. The lack of whatever they call horses.

I'd say the lack of horses is a technical game limitation. I cannot see having Cattle Barons by their trade dominate the NCR without horses there to help their crews wrangle cattle.

It's the same game engine as Oblivion isn't it? That has horses.

So was Civilization IV. I assume that when they were designing Fallout 3, they didn't literally mod guns and the ruins of DC into Oblivion. They probably reused bits, and didn't import bits that didn't need to be used (like horses).

A lot was repurposed with much left unchanged terminology wise.

IIRC, in the creation kit, stimpacks and other meds and drugs are classified as "potions" and the buffs on armour are "spells".

Well that is part of my confusion. This engine if memory serves is still evolving. So Skyrim, and Fallout 4 are on the same engine. (I think 76 as well)
So why can you ride something in fantasy but not post-apocalypse? I mean the travel bits should be about the same. And animation wise a motorcycle would be easier than a horse running.

They're in a bad need of a new engine, if only to help with their notoriously ugly graphics. I'm not a graphics guy, one of my favourite games aesthetics wise is original Everquest and it's 90s look, but even Morrowind's otherwordliness still had an air of ugliness to it, even if it was fitting for the setting; it has no place in the rest of the games. Nothing compares to the fat faces of Oblivion, though.

The issue I think is that it's so easy to make the kind of game they want with the engine... that plus they know long by now that the community will fix the mass of bugs that aren't crippling that they never bother to fix. I mean, we're talking about the same routine that is getting to be almost two decades old.

Except when that can't happen. (Fallout 76)

[Riedquat]

Well that is part of my confusion. This engine if memory serves is still evolving. So Skyrim, and Fallout 4 are on the same engine. (I think 76 as well)
So why can you ride something in fantasy but not post-apocalypse? I mean the travel bits should be about the same. And animation wise a motorcycle would be easier than a horse running.

The point is that it's not an engine limitation.

A motorbike has its own complications, more so than a car, at least if you want its movement to look good (the right amount of leaning and non-snappy).

[Beastro]

Except when that can't happen. (Fallout 76)

It's not just that, they got so used to their player base lapping up their usual crap they took it for granted that people might be mad about poor quality in their products.

One just has to see how they handled their collectors edition stuff with 76 to see that. One example alone is the promise of a canvas bag with it only for everyone to discover it was just cheap nylon.

The point is that it's not an engine limitation.

A motorbike has its own complications, more so than a car, at least if you want its movement to look good (the right amount of leaning and non-snappy).

Modders have added in vehicles. At least one person got the jets to work in NV. I dunno how well, but I'd think Bethesda could do the job if they wanted to.

Here's a vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb3IwvArugw

Amusing to see that the hardest part of piloting the plane is the fact that the ground is so broken and uneven.

[TGLS]

Modders have added in vehicles. At least one person got the jets to work in NV. I dunno how well, but I'd think Bethesda could do the job if they wanted to.

Here's a vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb3IwvArugw

Amusing to see that the hardest part of piloting the plane is the fact that the ground is so broken and uneven.

I'll concede it's doable to make a wide array of vehicles in Bethesda Fallout. The question is whether or not having driveable vehicles adds to the game or not. Mods can rely on novelty. Games need to think about whether there is anything interesting to do with or in the areas vehicles open. Does the option of a vehicle make other options irrelevant? Does it let you sequence break too easily? Does it make a mockery of particular mechanics? You can't throw things together and bank on the game working out.

[Thebestoftherest]

Except when that can't happen. (Fallout 76)

It's not just that, they got so used to their player base lapping up their usual crap they took it for granted that people might be mad about poor quality in their products.

One just has to see how they handled their collectors edition stuff with 76 to see that. One example alone is the promise of a canvas bag with it only for everyone to discover it was just cheap nylon.

IF they didn't want to give that bag, they shouldn't have put it there. There be people willing to buy it for the helmet alone. It only a big deal because THEY promise it.

[Beastro]

I'll concede it's doable to make a wide array of vehicles in Bethesda Fallout. The question is whether or not having driveable vehicles adds to the game or not. Mods can rely on novelty. Games need to think about whether there is anything interesting to do with or in the areas vehicles open. Does the option of a vehicle make other options irrelevant? Does it let you sequence break too easily? Does it make a mockery of particular mechanics? You can't throw things together and bank on the game working out.

Such a game as Fallout, unless they aimed to make a really massive world to make it viable, wouldn't be worth it. The result would be similar to Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl mods that sought to restore the original design plans of the game before a lot got cut as impractical. The cars and dedicated driving sections to make driving worth while simply weren't good; the world was too small and restricted.

TES games can make it work with horses, but cars I think are too fast and demanding too flat terrain to keep verisimilitude (Cars climbing mountains would be game-breaking in a way horses in Skyrim just made you chuckle over). You make the world too flat and too large and you rob the game of the hiking simulator fun; think of the open world Mad Max game from years back only you choose to walk around everywhere.

IF they didn't want to give that bag, they shouldn't have put it there. There be people willing to buy it for the helmet alone. It only a big deal because THEY promise it.

Precisely. After over a decade of their community accepting their faults as game developers they strayed into utter contempt for their customers. That kind of crap screams "We don't need to make this quality, because the idiots will buy it anyway and love it like they always have.".

[Thebestoftherest]

And the fact that fallout 76 isn't shut down due to lack of interest kinda right.

[Nealithi]

Well that is part of my confusion. This engine if memory serves is still evolving. So Skyrim, and Fallout 4 are on the same engine. (I think 76 as well)
So why can you ride something in fantasy but not post-apocalypse? I mean the travel bits should be about the same. And animation wise a motorcycle would be easier than a horse running.

They're in a bad need of a new engine, if only to help with their notoriously ugly graphics. I'm not a graphics guy, one of my favourite games aesthetics wise is original Everquest and it's 90s look, but even Morrowind's otherwordliness still had an air of ugliness to it, even if it was fitting for the setting; it has no place in the rest of the games. Nothing compares to the fat faces of Oblivion, though.

The issue I think is that it's so easy to make the kind of game they want with the engine... that plus they know long by now that the community will fix the mass of bugs that aren't crippling that they never bother to fix. I mean, we're talking about the same routine that is getting to be almost two decades old.

But that is also a thing with the engine. I have tossed in CBBE for both Fallout4 and Skyrim and the graphics for all the female models. And I for one have thought elf and dark elf faces in Elder Scrolls were god awful. But with this they are passable and humans are good. So it isn't an engine limitation.

[Riedquat]

But that is also a thing with the engine. I have tossed in CBBE for both Fallout4 and Skyrim and the graphics for all the female models. And I for one have thought elf and dark elf faces in Elder Scrolls were god awful. But with this they are passable and humans are good. So it isn't an engine limitation.

It's the high elves that freaked me out in Skyrim, much more than the dark elves. They really looked weird.

[Independent George]

The first time I finished New Vegas, I ended up with a sniper build (this was before the DLCs were out, so endgame builds actually mattered at level 30). I sneak-attack criticalled Lanius' head into little bits with the Anti-Material Rifle long before I got close enough to talk to him - after all, why would my frail, stealthy marksman walk up to the hulking man in heavy armor with a giant sword? It wasn't until my second playthrough that I learned that dialogue was even possible.

I'm kind of curious about Chuck's build - based on the opening, I'd guess he's roleplaying as a diplomat character who lost his abilities from the brain damage, and gradually builds it back up by the end (with much amusing frustration in between). The failed speech check dialogue is pretty fun, but low speech closes off a lot of interesting quest resolutions. With the DLCs installed, you also tend to have a massive surplus of skill points long before you even make it halfway through the game.

Old World Blues is going to be so much fun...