Star Trek Discovery: Season Three

[Asvarduil]

The Guardian of Forever was only mildly sentient in TOS. Not that they havent already retconned Harry Mudd from lovable rogue to psychotic asshole so its not as if they care all that much about anything besides the name of these characters.

It was also a different guardian from what we saw in DISCO, but hey, just mere details.

And Harry Mudd "lovable rogue"? How the fuck was he lovable???

Yeah, this is something I personally tilt my head at, so killing people and resetting time to do it again because he was left to rot in Klingon Prison is to far, but Drug Smuggling and Human Trafficking is a-okay, rogue I definitely see, but lovable... not so much.

Personally Cyrano Jones fits more as a lovable rogue than Harry Mudd.

Frankly, I like Book as "lovable rogue", because he actually is a lovable rogue. Whose primary class is Druid.

...15th level Druid...

.......15 Druid / 1 Rogue?

[Makeshift Python]

The Guardian of Forever was only mildly sentient in TOS. Not that they havent already retconned Harry Mudd from lovable rogue to psychotic asshole so its not as if they care all that much about anything besides the name of these characters.

It was also a different guardian from what we saw in DISCO, but hey, just mere details.

And Harry Mudd "lovable rogue"? How the fuck was he lovable???

And there being multiple Guardians of Forever is not a retcon? Or was I taking the THE at the start of his name too literally? Very interested to know how you handwave that one sport.

I hand wave it the same way I hand wave Spock jumping from "one of my ancestors was human" straight to "my mother is human".

[Link8909]

I hand wave it the same way I hand wave Spock jumping from "one of my ancestors was human" straight to "my mother is human".

Or how Kirk apparently changed his middle initial from R to T, heck, we didn't even know that his middle name was Tiberius until The Animated Series.

When I comes to The Original Series, a lot of the lore was either added in the episodes it was introduced in, such as the many aspects of Vulcan culture like the Mind Meld, the Vulcan Salute, and the IDIC Symbol, or was inconsistent because of the different writers, such as women not allowed to be starship captains, while there was a series Bible, it feels more like board ideas than a detailed mythos, and many aspects that we take for granted nowadays weren't introduced until years later like the fact Vulcans were the aliens that made First Contact with Humanity, Star Trek has always played it loose with it's lore for better and worse.

One of the premises of Star Trek is to discovery the unknown, so for me personally finding out new things about the universe is very welcomed, even if it's about things that we thought we new everything about.

Plus, this is all fun speculation until the actual answer is revealed, for all we know so far this could well be a Q, or another omnipotent being, or even a future Wesley Crusher who has taped into his full potential.

[clearspira]

The Guardian of Forever was only mildly sentient in TOS. Not that they havent already retconned Harry Mudd from lovable rogue to psychotic asshole so its not as if they care all that much about anything besides the name of these characters.

It was also a different guardian from what we saw in DISCO, but hey, just mere details.

And Harry Mudd "lovable rogue"? How the fuck was he lovable???

And there being multiple Guardians of Forever is not a retcon? Or was I taking the THE at the start of his name too literally? Very interested to know how you handwave that one sport.

I hand wave it the same way I hand wave Spock jumping from "one of my ancestors was human" straight to "my mother is human".

That's fine. You get to dismiss what was clearly canon, and I get to dismiss the idea that there are multiple The Guardians of Forever. Everyone is happy.

[Asvarduil]

The Guardian of Forever was only mildly sentient in TOS. Not that they havent already retconned Harry Mudd from lovable rogue to psychotic asshole so its not as if they care all that much about anything besides the name of these characters.

It was also a different guardian from what we saw in DISCO, but hey, just mere details.

And Harry Mudd "lovable rogue"? How the fuck was he lovable???

And there being multiple Guardians of Forever is not a retcon? Or was I taking the THE at the start of his name too literally? Very interested to know how you handwave that one sport.

I hand wave it the same way I hand wave Spock jumping from "one of my ancestors was human" straight to "my mother is human".

That's fine. You get to dismiss what was clearly canon, and I get to dismiss the idea that there are multiple The Guardians of Forever. Everyone is happy.

To be 100% fair, everyone who encounters the episode Threshold handwaves that entire episode away, because what little sanity anyone who survives that episode has, depends upon doing that.

Handwaves are sometimes necessary.

Plus, this is all fun speculation until the actual answer is revealed, for all we know so far this could well be a Q, or another omnipotent being, or even a future Wesley Crusher who has taped into his full potential.

Hey, Wesley not being awful is always a welcome change.

Side note: I have watched Critical Role's first campaign, so I've gotten to see Will Wheaton in action relatively recently. Good actor, good D&D player...only the Wheaton dice curse is very much a real thing. CR players have actually had to destroy dice that he's touched, as after his influence takes hold, the dice start reliably rolling badly. I'm not sure how or why, I'm not sure that he's capable of altering the balance of a dice to make the low sides lighter somehow.

[Makeshift Python]

That's fine. You get to dismiss what was clearly canon, and I get to dismiss the idea that there are multiple The Guardians of Forever. Everyone is happy.

If it's that important that there should have only been one guardian at the time Kirk encountered one, why not just consider the fact that 900 years have passed and during that gap a different incarnation of a guardian was appointed?

[clearspira]

That's fine. You get to dismiss what was clearly canon, and I get to dismiss the idea that there are multiple The Guardians of Forever. Everyone is happy.

If it's that important that there should have only been one guardian at the time Kirk encountered one, why not just consider the fact that 900 years have passed and during that gap a different incarnation of a guardian was appointed?

I'll give you that. All we really knew about the Guardian from TOS was that he was shit at his job. Not only did he let Bones just walk through but he offered zero help to Kirk and Spock. Bit of a lofty title really.

[Mabus]

Welp, Terra Firma Part 2 just happened. It wasn't a miserable episode like I worried it would be. Nope, instead it's the sum of everything wrong with the series crammed into one episode: Everyone fawns over how awesome Michael is, the more interesting background story is simply ignored or minimized because they must make Michael relevant somehow, everyone fawns over how awesome Michael is, the other "main characters" exist only to tell Michael how awesome she is and how much she helped in their life, everyone fawns over how awesome Michael is, Michael whispers again, Michael made the cartoonish middle aged high school girl become better (wut) because said character wanted to rule the world with her at her side and her entire character development revolved around making Burnham great again, everyone fawns over ho- oh come on! The series is called "Star Trek: Discovery" and NOT "1000 reasons why Michael Burnham is awesome".
Chuck and many others have constantly pointed out how always having Michael as the main focus harms the rest of the characters and the story itself. After having watched the first three episodes of The Expanse's season 5 I realized that the problem in Discovery runs much deeper: there simply isn't any proper weight to any of the characters' actions nor to the story itself. Which also includes Michael. There simply isn't any proper continuity, all three seasons of DIS take place in multiple locations and time periods but there's no proper connection between what happens in each arc, except for a few mentions and minor plots that can be replaced with anything else and you couldn't tell the difference. Which for a series that's supposed to be "heavily serialized" it's a fatal flaw. The characters are developed so poorly that apart from some short mentions they aren't even involved in other side plots that don't involve Michael. B5, DS9, The Expanse, each have separate stories for each character(s) that help develop the characters. Picard tried to do that, but since none of the story had any weight (and they were all conveniently tied to the main mystery box) and most of the story lines were shelved, it just felt like it didn't know what it was trying to achieve. Which reminds me...
NuTrek plots can be reduced into two main types: "threat of war with X" and "world-ending threat", with a few alterations. Both the films and STD S1-3 and STP S1 can be summed up by mixing the two categories. Which might work for a popcorn theatrical film, but for a TV series? It just comes across as lazy writing. Which is funny considering that The Expanse also uses the two tropes, but the secret being that you don't forget to give the characters something to do that doesn't involve being 100% tied to the main event and you DO. NOT. RELY. ON. MYSTERY. BOXES. EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. TIME. YOU. DON'T. KNOW. WHAT. TO. DO. NEXT!
I feel like Kurtzman and his lackeys still think that a TV series should be written like theatrical popcorn films and simply don't understand that these two are different media that don't always mix well.

[Zargon]

Terra Firma Part 2 was just as boring as the first part. Nothing really happens. And it takes up two whole episodes.

Even the test part was pointless: Georgiou already changed because Michael wanted her to change.

And what, now that "mom" told her too, we get to see Captain Mikey?

And, sigh, look "who" Karl was..... so sure the DISO makers just pick random things from other Star Trek shows, utterly ignore the show of course, and then just make some wacky DISO spin as it's so awesome cool. Though the worst part might have been the fact that "Carl" did not appear in 'his' true form for no other reason then to make a stupid, sad mystery for the people watching. Show the true form and everyone would know who/what he is in .000001 seconds. So sure, change "him" into a goofy guy with a door.

HUmmm....and Carl was part of the Temporal War? Sounds inserting, but I know they'd ruin it.

And next week, back to the dumb Burn metaplot......you know the one Michael cared "so much about" for the first couple episodes. Maybe we will find the...sigh...dumb reason for the Burn. Like maybe it was Michael's time traveling dad with a Romulan time crystal and Michale will again need to zip through time and space in an awesome suit and save the universe.....again.

[Makeshift Python]

That's fine. You get to dismiss what was clearly canon, and I get to dismiss the idea that there are multiple The Guardians of Forever. Everyone is happy.

If it's that important that there should have only been one guardian at the time Kirk encountered one, why not just consider the fact that 900 years have passed and during that gap a different incarnation of a guardian was appointed?

I'll give you that. All we really knew about the Guardian from TOS was that he was shit at his job. Not only did he let Bones just walk through but he offered zero help to Kirk and Spock. Bit of a lofty title really.

Or it turns out, according to Part II, there is just one guardian after all, and it can travel itself through time and space as it developed that ability after being abused during the Temporal Wars. Seems he didn't learn that lesson after the Bones fiasco.