Steve Shives - Is Batman Fascist?

[BBally81]

Not this nonsense again.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Not this nonsense again.

You don't know what's at steak.

[Madner Kami]

Firstly, saying that "any economic policy is simply in aid of accomplishing another task" is technically true, but a bit misleading since some ideologies- and idealogues- downplay the importance of economic policy (like the Nazi's) while others make it the cornerstone of their philosophy (Marxists, Libertarians)

I feel this is a gross misunderstanding of german national-socialism. The push for "Lebensraum" and autarchy, which is a huge cornerstone if not a centerpiece of the ideology as outlined by Hitler, is completely based on the economic needs of the nation and the experiences made due to the blockage of any overseas trade by the Entente and Britain in particular, in particular the gradually increasing starvation resulting from the blockades in the first World War. It doesn't get much more economic than that and it's no coincidence, that the east of Europe (and western Asia) were picked as places to expand the nation into, instead of the on a superficial level more sensible choice of the developed west and south of Europe...

[CmdrKing]

I was more thinking of this. Some scholars find numerous similarities, others assert direct inspiration, I don’t have access to the books with a quick google to assess credibility of the latter but...

https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibli ... -south#one

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Firstly, saying that "any economic policy is simply in aid of accomplishing another task" is technically true, but a bit misleading since some ideologies- and idealogues- downplay the importance of economic policy (like the Nazi's) while others make it the cornerstone of their philosophy (Marxists, Libertarians)

I feel this is a gross misunderstanding of german national-socialism. The push for "Lebensraum" and autarchy, which is a huge cornerstone if not a centerpiece of the ideology as outlined by Hitler, is completely based on the economic needs of the nation and the experiences made due to the blockage of any overseas trade by the Entente and Britain in particular, in particular the gradually increasing starvation resulting from the blockades in the first World War. It doesn't get much more economic than that and it's no coincidence, that the east of Europe (and western Asia) were picked as places to expand the nation into, instead of the on a superficial level more sensible choice of the developed west and south of Europe...

If I may. The difference is that he’s talking about the campaign rhetoric as a more or less deliberate function of fascistic agendas, Working off a plied theory surrounding western democracy.

Like, the presumed framework of their policy as a social need. A social need and not a blatant excuse for sustained power for one’s own agenda.

It’s within their own country, and the Ethos of their administration as they take power.

Thinking about it though, yeah, it could just be about breathing room, Thus focusing on trade deficits and colonialism, Instead of domestic policy.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

As a state agenda, autarky is more of a devolution of economic science. Especially when his plan was considerately more about stealing titles and not developing any kind of their infrastructure.

It’s the literal manifestation of “imagine/assume a hammer” punchline.

Ironically we do have a term for it. And they were called nazis.

[Madner Kami]

Thinking about it though, yeah, it could just be about breathing room, Thus focusing on trade deficits and colonialism, Instead of domestic policy.

Not instead. That focus is the domestic policy. And yes, that is colonialsm in a haphazard disguise, except that replacing the population in those colonies was integral part of the policy, which isn't necessarily the case for "traditional" colonialism.

Especially when his plan was considerately more about stealing titles and not developing any kind of their infrastructure.

Short-term was stealing yes, but long-term was developing the underdeveloped east in order to make it useful for a modern industry (and agriculture). "Lebensraum Ost" wasn't intended as an area of slaves and serfs, it was intended as an economic area to support the nation expansively migrating into this area. Part of the Reich, not a colony subservient to the Reich, if you can follow my thought.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Thinking about it though, yeah, it could just be about breathing room, Thus focusing on trade deficits and colonialism, Instead of domestic policy.

Not instead. That focus is the domestic policy. And yes, that is colonialsm in a haphazard disguise, except that replacing the population in those colonies was integral part of the policy, which isn't necessarily the case for "traditional" colonialism.

Especially when his plan was considerately more about stealing titles and not developing any kind of their infrastructure.

Short-term was stealing yes, but long-term was developing the underdeveloped east in order to make it useful for a modern industry (and agriculture). "Lebensraum Ost" wasn't intended as an area of slaves and serfs, it was intended as an economic area to support the nation expansively migrating into this area. Part of the Reich, not a colony subservient to the Reich, if you can follow my thought.

Well I mean focusing on like one sector to orchestrate more colonialism isn't really an economic cornerstone. Nazism was mostly about race and homeland. There's an economic outline, but it wasn't used as a justification tenet in the overarching philosophy, as in like this is what's best for essentially anybody. It seems more like "this is what's good for us and what we need to do for homeland."

Libertarianism [typically] involves a great deal of work on manifest destiny for economic prosperity. Marxism is centralized on industrialization, which was the global economic phenomenon responsible for vast increases in wealth all over.

edit: It's worth pointing out that the Soviets would obviously represent the economic giant of the Fascist circle. Which raises the question for me of why Italy is the poster child for what is incarnated evil on the state level. I think it has a lot to do with romanticism.

[Madner Kami]

Well I mean focusing on like one sector to orchestrate more colonialism isn't really an economic cornerstone. Nazism was mostly about race and homeland. There's an economic outline, but it wasn't used as a justification tenet in the overarching philosophy, as in like this is what's best for essentially anybody. It seems more like "this is what's good for us and what we need to do for homeland."

I don't see how any country's economic policies need to be "best for essentially anybody". A country is primarly concerned with it's own well-being, for obvious, practical and logical reasons. This is doubly true if your political philosophy is called National-Socialism. You know, being social to the nation. It's literally in the name...

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well I mean focusing on like one sector to orchestrate more colonialism isn't really an economic cornerstone. Nazism was mostly about race and homeland. There's an economic outline, but it wasn't used as a justification tenet in the overarching philosophy, as in like this is what's best for essentially anybody. It seems more like "this is what's good for us and what we need to do for homeland."

I don't see how any country's economic policies need to be "best for essentially anybody". A country is primarly concerned with it's own well-being, for obvious, practical and logical reasons. This is doubly true if your political philosophy is called National-Socialism. You know, being social to the nation. It's literally in the name...

Right. So when your country's economic plan involves ransacking other countries and developing the economy from there, then its concern is rather in spite of its own wellbeing.

You play StarCraft, I know this. You need to economize throughout an entire match to defeat your enemies. If your plan is to macro (which everyone hates) without telling your allies, then unally them after you put hordes of zealots in their bases, then excuse me for not suggesting your build order for competent strategy.