MAGA rioters storm the Senate

[Makeshift Python]

I actually wasn't thinking of him when I wrote that, but you might as well include him.

This thread also reminds me of the the right-wing terrorist thread concerning the attempted kidnapping of a governor.

[Steve]

You can call those idiots trashing the Capitol whatever you want, Steve, that doesn't change the fact that the Authoritarian left have all but taken over this country while crybullying constantly about being supposedly oppressed. Their brownshirts went completely wild this summer, and Democrats consistently ordered the police to hold back on the rioters, and release any that they actually did arrest. Meanwhile, they sent the police to places of worship or to anti-lockdown protests, some even going as far as to declare that the first amendment was "non-essential."

And they're idiots too. That doesn't change what happened on January 6th. It's just a lame attempt to downplay or even justify it.

First off, Trump's actions and statements speak for themselves, and it's clear he wasn't part of that. If you want to argue he riled them up, that's another matter. Either way you can stop shrieking about "attempted coup" because we all know how Democrats feel about the country and its system - they've made it abundantly clear. And another thing: I'm not wringing my hands over that woman dying - I'm laughing at the hypocrisy of how the left is reacting to what happened, because for all the shrieks of "attempted coup" none of them were armed. Not to mention that the regressive left claims to hold women up on pedestals, yet will be straight-up misogynist if those women don't share their politics. So I'm just going to keep bringing up the fact that an unarmed woman was shot and killed by the police.

If you mean he said he'd join them in going to the Capitol and then went home instead, yeah, he wasn't part of it. But he was still the one who riled them up and sent them toward the Capitol, after his own Vice President had to refuse his demands to break the law, and after he spent something of an hour trying to threaten and cajole Georgia state officials into finding him votes to tilt the balance.

Oh please. The Democrats have done that. Trump hardly did anything, period, let alone actually live up to those accusations of being a fascist. But then, leftists are guilty of all the things they accuse others of.

Leftists have yet to attack the US Congress in an attempt to prevent an election from being constitutionally certified. But go ahead, keep belittling what happened and harping on your personal bogeymen. I'm sure you'll get leftists trying the same thing eventually.

Or, as far as they were concerned, an illegal one. That woman was a vet, as it turned out. And while I noted zip-tie man, too, I also noted a distinct lack of firearms, and frankly how easily they were able to enter the building and basically go wherever they wanted and do whatever they wanted. I find that pretty suspicious.

A lot of us have. It's almost like someone wanted them to successfully seize members of Congress and prevent the election from being certified.

Possibly, but I doubt it. I kind of suspect this all was planned. As someone pointed out, this was apparently all planned out on social media, so there was every opportunity to call in extra security to deal with it, and there are even witnesses claiming the police who were there helped take down some of the barriers. I was pretty flabbergasted at what footage I saw, because I've seen how the police there have treated protestors in the past, and it was completely different. The only aspect of that which went the way it should have was ushering all the professional crooks down into the shelter underground. At one point, though, the secret service agents had every opportunity to open fire on this bunch, yet they didn't. I kind of wonder why.

From what reports I've seen, the USSS were ready to use lethal force to protect Pence, and the Sergeants-at-Arms did employ lethal force in the shooting. Plus Goodman acting to deliberately lure the putschists away from the Senate.

But yeah, again, a lot of us are wondering about why the Capitol Police were basically left dangling, and why requests for NG backup and the offer of support from Maryland's NG and police were being denied.

I thought ACAB. Suddenly the left cares about a police officer? Y'all were cheering over those cops that some rando shot in their squad car over the summer. There was even a group of "mostly peaceful protestors" who went down to the hospital to try to finish the job. And of course there was that retired black cop who died trying to defend his business which no one gave a shit about, because only some black lives matter, apparently.

I never said ACAB, and I don't give a damn about the left's rhetoric.

Everyone knows that's the case. They've also covered for Biden and his son, and pretty much any Democrat that's ever been accused of anything. The harshest coverage I've seen of anyone else was Pelosi for going to a salon during the lockdown, and even that petered out pretty quickly.

Ah, right, because they didn't jump all over the laptop thing, because that totally sounded legit and not some October Surprise.

Obvious election fraud and politicians and law enforcement who ignore the Constitution they swore to uphold.

Your "obvious" election fraud has failed to convince courts across the country of its existence, and frankly it feels far more like a sop to Trump's ego (and the egos of every GOPer who was insisting Biden was going to get creamed).

[Thebestoftherest]

Yeah, there might be election fraud but the idea it happen in any ways enough to matter is silly.

[Riedquat]

Looks like we've descended into the good old land us vs them, one extreme or the other, so it's no wonder it's easy to find idiots on both sides (and neither does that mean the reality is it's a 100% grey equally bad situation either).

In general (not really talking about the US elections here) various things that keep getting thrown on the "left" have really poisoned the world. A lot of them illustrate sharply the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." They've become so prevalent however that you get demonised for daring to not think properly, so it's little wonder that those who gain the most attention against them are generally little better or much worse themselves. But there's little chance of coming to our senses when it really is article of faith prejudice stuff all around (this is where the "left" really are hypocrites).

I've been sticking "left" in quotes because it doesn't really seem like a left vs right issue, it's just latched on to those. It's really more about which flavour of blind prejudice you've decided to accept.

[Draco Dracul]

Looks like we've descended into the good old land us vs them, one extreme or the other, so it's no wonder it's easy to find idiots on both sides (and neither does that mean the reality is it's a 100% grey equally bad situation either).

In general (not really talking about the US elections here) various things that keep getting thrown on the "left" have really poisoned the world. A lot of them illustrate sharply the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." They've become so prevalent however that you get demonised for daring to not think properly, so it's little wonder that those who gain the most attention against them are generally little better or much worse themselves. But there's little chance of coming to our senses when it really is article of faith prejudice stuff all around (this is where the "left" really are hypocrites).

I've been sticking "left" in quotes because it doesn't really seem like a left vs right issue, it's just latched on to those. It's really more about which flavour of blind prejudice you've decided to accept.

I really love how you're going "BOTH SIDES" to an attempted right wing coup d'etat on the American government.

Yeah, there might be election fraud but the idea it happen in any ways enough to matter is silly.

I actually think there is basically zero chance of election fraud because it would have to mean that the Democrats are capable of stealing elections in states where all branches of government are Republican controlled, but only used it to barely seek out control of the senate and didn't use it to throw out blue state Republican Susan Collins, nor did they use it throw out plague profiteer Thom Tillis.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Even Pelosi going to a salon was somehow forgotten by the masses, like Goliath being slayed by David.

[Steve]

Riedquat, I get that you're trying to be the voice of reason pointing out how the polarization of both sides hurts us all, but on this matter... no.

A key cornerstone of the American Republic, the peaceful transfer of power, has been assaulted, all from one man's delusion spreading to his followers out of his fragile, manchild ego being unable to handle losing. If not for the bravery of some good people, we might have seen what could have effectively been a self-coup of the United States government carried out on January 6th, and even if it didn't happen, the mere attempt is so damaging that it will lead to another unless we really hammer home the negative consequences.

So I'm not going for the BOTH SIDES crap. Whatever excesses the BLM and Antifa crowd have committed, they've yet to damage the fabric of our Republic the way the Trumpists did. The Trumpists deserve all the condemnation they're getting and more.

I'm also becoming disappointed in the Republican Party. For decades they've insisted the Democrats were violating the Constitution, or plotting violations, and declaring themselves its guardians. Now one of their own, their effective leader in the government, has attacked it in a far graver fashion than any Obama Executive Order has. Yet all we get is a mealy-mouthed "the whip won't be held against the impeachment vote" decision, and McConnell's hedging in the Senate. No. This is insufficient. While many would mock me for it, I expect better from the Republicans, and their failure to deliver is ensuring I vote Democrat down the line in the future. If they don't turn the ship around now and help convict Trump (and throw out any Congress members found to have aided and abetted the putsch), then as far as I'm concerned the Republican Party is now the Sedition Party, enemies of the Constitution.

[Captain Crimson]

Riedquat, I get that you're trying to be the voice of reason pointing out how the polarization of both sides hurts us all, but on this matter... no.

A key cornerstone of the American Republic, the peaceful transfer of power, has been assaulted, all from one man's delusion spreading to his followers out of his fragile, manchild ego being unable to handle losing. If not for the bravery of some good people, we might have seen what could have effectively been a self-coup of the United States government carried out on January 6th, and even if it didn't happen, the mere attempt is so damaging that it will lead to another unless we really hammer home the negative consequences.

So I'm not going for the BOTH SIDES crap. Whatever excesses the BLM and Antifa crowd have committed, they've yet to damage the fabric of our Republic the way the Trumpists did. The Trumpists deserve all the condemnation they're getting and more.

I'm also becoming disappointed in the Republican Party. For decades they've insisted the Democrats were violating the Constitution, or plotting violations, and declaring themselves its guardians. Now one of their own, their effective leader in the government, has attacked it in a far graver fashion than any Obama Executive Order has. Yet all we get is a mealy-mouthed "the whip won't be held against the impeachment vote" decision, and McConnell's hedging in the Senate. No. This is insufficient. While many would mock me for it, I expect better from the Republicans, and their failure to deliver is ensuring I vote Democrat down the line in the future. If they don't turn the ship around now and help convict Trump (and throw out any Congress members found to have aided and abetted the putsch), then as far as I'm concerned the Republican Party is now the Sedition Party, enemies of the Constitution.

Well, maybe that's what needs to happen. I'm not even a fan of the GOP, yet the system is just so broken, so divisive, so outdated, that radical change might be needed. Also, I still maintain that Mr. Trump did not cause this division, he exploited it. He's not the symptom, but the cause. If more and more people don't trust our authorities, if the online sphere can help expose their lies and hypocrisies easier and easier every day, and if they refuse to actually serve the people, then they don't deserve our loyalty.

I'd still say Mr. Jackson is worse than Mr. Trump or Mr. Bush is worse than Mr. Trump. People are angry and tired and fed up, and Mr. Biden doesn't even represent democratic values past "NOT TRUMP." I mean, jeez, we didn't nominate a superior alternative, we just settled. It's why there was no slowdown to the violent outbreaks in November. Mr. Biden can't heal or unite us, and no one likes him. When the MSM shield him to keep his glaring weaknesses from being exposed out of fear from the lower masses and their rivals, it's just going to become more blatant.

And I don't even like this recent rise in division and hatred, yet it's happening and not stopping. Look at what Mr. Sanders is saying. Yes, he's a fraud, and hypocrite, and sadly a USSR admirer, but he's also correct in saying that if democrats can't take action, then they're going to lose congressional seats in 2022, and does anyone expect Mr. Biden or Ms. Harris to win in 2024? If the DNC is so terrified about how far out of the line the GOP is going, then their reaction is just as bad or worse, to play it safe.

Playing it safe got nobody anywhere. Playing it safe is just barely holding the line, and the conditions for 2020 can't be replicated, unless it really was unleashed by the CCP to hurt Mr. Trump and help the DNC win, so that they can do it again in 2024. I don't know. It's plausible, but probably not likely.

What can be done to face the challenges of our times? Other users insist the preceding decades were at least a bit happier with more opportunities. Now culture is splintering and the scars aren't healing. But we can't abandon ship. There's only one Earth as far as we know it. And because human beings are so impressionable, division is now the norm, as the elites push our differences at one another to keep us fighting for profit.

We need more tolerance culture, and they don't want that because there's no money in it.

[Steve]

I don't think Trump being gone will magically heal anything. At best, it gets rid of a con man exploiting the situation to appease his ego. And if the Democrats don't go all-in on impeaching him (to bar him from any future office-seeking) then they deserve as much contempt.

And maybe it is time for a political shakeup. Hell, maybe it's time to acknowledge we need a proportional or preferential voting system instead of First Past the Post one vote stuff. But that won't do us any good if it gets into people's heads that they can try to resist election results violently and not face consequences for it.

So, I'm still for hammering the crap out of him and those who stormed the Capitol. Pour decourager les autres.

[Riedquat]

Riedquat, I get that you're trying to be the voice of reason pointing out how the polarization of both sides hurts us all, but on this matter... no.

A key cornerstone of the American Republic, the peaceful transfer of power, has been assaulted, all from one man's delusion spreading to his followers out of his fragile, manchild ego being unable to handle losing. ...

Yes, they completely and utterly crossed the line. But dismissing and demonsing an entire position because it's attracted some nutters is, well, history's full of it, quite honestly. It's burying your head in the sand to what brought about that situation in the first place, a very rigid, unforgiving, intolerant (whatever they claim, which is why they're such hypocrites) norm. Even if it's general stance is the less obnoxious (if you've got to over-simplify into a them versus us position) it needs to accept its responsibility in what it's created. Why had the situation deteriorated so much that enough people were prepared to start considering what looks quite extreme?

It's happened time and time again throughout history. Mainstream shuts out a group, group gets more extreme due to being shut out, and that extremism is used to further demonise that group. People retreat more and more to brainlessly over-simplified black and white positions, saying the other's scum, and conflict ensues. That's exactly what's going on here. It doesn't really matter if the general position of one side has the overall moral high ground on what they stand for, if they become so bigoted and rigid and willing to demonise anyone who disagrees with them this is the result, or worse.

Imgaine the result of the Holier-Than-Thou aren't we perfect, thank goodness we're no longer those disgusting savages Series 1 TNG crew were in charge. You'd get exactly this sort of situation.