Gina Carano fired

[Captain Crimson]

They don't just want the financial returns, but the critical accolades in the little cliques they have.

If the work is ultimately entertaining, who fucking cares?

Their motives are inevitably going to clash with fandom, and the long-term fanbase as well. It's about prestige and ego. A lot of the worst bombs happened after studio interference, historically.

[TGLS]

I don't care to do, since everything in Hollywood is made for the casual audience now. It's something that the internet age has mainstreamed, which I don't think should have been.

Again, TOS and DS9 was made for the fans. The SG TV shows were made for the fans. B5 was made for the fans, and the SW EU was made for the fans. Those times are long gone.

I honestly can't help but see the opposite. Fandom is going mainstream. I recall reading in Fade-In* that there was going to be some scenes with Quark and Barclay, but the studio execs had them cut. I find it hard to imagine the same thing happening in this era of cinematic universes and reference over story.

Franchises are developing to the point such that it isn't a matter of "I heard Black Widow is good, let's go see it Saturday" anymore; it's "Hey, the new MCU movie comes out on the 7th, let's go see it". I find it hard to not call that Fandom without stretching the word beyond meaning.

*The unpublished Piller book about the writing and development of Star Trek: Insurrection

They don't just want the financial returns, but the critical accolades in the little cliques they have.

If they wanted critical accolades, they'd be making moody social dramas, and not fucking around with a "pew-pew lasers" movie.

[Makeshift Python]

They don't just want the financial returns, but the critical accolades in the little cliques they have.

If the work is ultimately entertaining, who fucking cares?

Their motives are inevitably going to clash with fandom, and the long-term fanbase as well. It's about prestige and ego. A lot of the worst bombs happened after studio interference, historically.

Perhaps fandom needs to adopt Death of the Author. But perhaps there's too much baggage. I hate Tom Cruise as a person and a human being, but he makes good movies so I can separate his real life persona from his work as a filmmaker/actor.

I've seen fans try to project nefarious motives towards filmmakers they don't like, as it makes them feel more righteous.

[Captain Crimson]

I honestly can't help but see the opposite. Fandom is going mainstream. I recall reading in Fade-In* that there was going to be some scenes with Quark and Barclay, but the studio execs had them cut. I find it hard to imagine the same thing happening in this era of cinematic universes and reference over story.

No, the illusion of fandom going mainstream is what we have, where outsiders can go online, google a bit, and act more informed than they are over the fans who have been here since the beginning. That is what we see in a lot of these trashy online articles.

I've witnessed this all the time from my little niche in SWL. Skippy the Force-sensitive droid was NEVER canon and I can prove it, it's hypocrisy to bash Mount Sorrow when sentient mountains appear in the DSWC, and just little examples like that which come from people who either take talking points from one another or do some quick skimming without bothering about the fine print. It's why nobody trusts the MSM.

What we're seeing is complete unity from the internet, instant connection to every place, and human civilization wasn't built on unified connections, it was built on crushing our rivals. It's probably why depression is on the rise, and you got all these mega corps coming in to regulate it and in extremely unpopular ways, to boot. Technological infiltration is everywhere and has complicated everything.

An example. I've met many fans who latch onto SWL merely because they disliked TLJ and so want a clean alternative. Problem being they're just doing it to bash TLJ. Their motives are not the same as the older SWL fans. The FM is filled with many of them. They've practically never checked it all out until 2017. Or when it involves coming with grips to the fact TCW was never made to fit into the EU, they also can't accept that. This is what mainstreaming fandom does. It splinters everything into so many little subcultures that the studio heads can't keep track and wind up making only a fraction of the money they could have.

Franchises are developing to the point such that it isn't a matter of "I heard Black Widow is good, let's go see it Saturday" anymore; it's "Hey, the new MCU movie comes out on the 7th, let's go see it". I find it hard to not call that Fandom without stretching the word beyond meaning.

You're talking movies. Movies will do as they've always done. But SW merchandise isn't selling as well as it used to, we have the numbers for this. Remember, "units shipped" isn't "units sold" and how often have a bunch of retailers been shipped a bunch of comics or books, and then the numbers seem fine at first, but they always drop off eventually, usually within a few months or a couple years later.

The days are gone when a lot of other big-budget movies would just step aside when the next SW film came out. It's not a special event anymore, they're just movies in an increasingly competitive market, which includes even past SF or past stories prior to the reboot, and it's reflected in the merchandise. Why would people rather read a DSWC novel over something from the old EU? Why would they want to watch the PT or TCW when, say, you could check out the Republic comics? Even the recent LOTJ novel had no stakes, it returned to status-quo at the end of the novel.

Fandom and merchandising isn't the same thing, and everything I see in my niche is that LF wants to purge the older fans, the older authors, rewrite the lore, and cater it to "modern" sensibilities, and that is asinine. This isn't hyperbole either. An HR author admits to looking to the past on what to view through the lens of historical revision. I think it was Ms. Arielle or Ms. Ireland. Look at how many web sites are now gone. DH forums, SW.com, Hyperspace, and many more. Lost in the mad transition over to Disney.

Look at how often they've taken some idea from past lore, rewritten it for what they do, and then act like they'd invented it? "Captain Phasma: First female villain!" Yeah, Jenna Zan Arbor and Ysanne Isard would look like a word with you. Calling the fans sexist. And yet many movie fans probably also love the Aliens franchise, and Terminator. So that's just done to hit the blue checkmarks I'd mentioned. First Wookiee Jedi? Lowbacca was a prominent member of the YJK YA books. To this day, they won't admit they got the idea for TROS from DE even though Mr. McDiarmid says in Mr. Lucas's original ST treatments, Palpatine was "definitely dead."

The interests of the casual fan is at odds to the long-term fan hip-deep in lore. They may like to know, which is great, but in a lot of cases, they get egocentric and act more informed than they are, or recoil if it means challenging a lot of their preconceived notions. It's how echo chambers form. If fandom is going mainstream, might I ask why LF will not allow more SWL novels and comics? They are never gonna be made into movies or TV shows, which is fine, I'm okay with that, I don't want that, but as books and comics, the reprints still sell better than most DSWC novels and comic books, but they won't allow new SWL stories to be told. From willing authors and willing fans.

If they wanted critical accolades, they'd be making moody social dramas, and not fucking around with a "pew-pew lasers" movie.

Well, maybe that was worded wrong, so I do apologize if my intent wasn't properly expressed. I was trying to convey cronyism in critics' circles.

[Thebestoftherest]

Hey Makeshift Python do you think that the writing to GB16 fail it as well.

[Captain Crimson]

Here's the numbers I'd mentioned.





They don't want the past to survive, they've proven this. They want you to forget it, even kill it if it's required. They didn't want OT characters for Galaxy's Edge, they wanted the ST characters, and what we see instead is that while a lot of people liked it, as many more did not. That's reflected in the comic sales, which dropped like a stone the next month, so that Marvel 108 sold better than it, one of the few SWL we've got since 2014.

What they want is for you to see some well-known bit of past lore, to hit those memberberries, and to get you to feel good. Remember this planet? Remember this character? You like it, right? But they are using that nostalgia bait to trick you. They don't care about what came before, don't care about canon and continuity, which is the hallmark of debates and nitpicking in true geek circles. Sadly this usually works with most casual fandom, who loved Luke's cameo, and yet still believe clickbait lies from the FM that the ST is going to be retconned. Fandom is not being mainstreamed when you can point to times of better interaction between the consumer and distributer in the past.

[Thebestoftherest]

YOu do know that Kylo Ren was a bad guy and a mouth piece in the last jedi right? PS who cares about comics?

[Al-1701]

I've disagreed with Clownfish TV more than once, yet I don't think there's ill intention with the channel. And yet it's not like they present an alternative to the MSM they say they hate. Because what would truly be a superior alternative is presenting both sides in balance. But feeding the outrage machine always nabs views. Look at something like Mr. Walker's videos for Channel Awesome.

I stopped watching Clownfish after they tried to use the "both sides" argument in the face of the Capitol Riot and then not understanding why "Jewish space lasers" was trending on Twitter and coming right out and saying they don't follow politics (even though they can't seem to shut up about it). At that point, I just couldn't take it. There are somethings I think they get right, but that's more broken clock than legitimate insight.

Back to Star Wars, everything feels divided between the factions. Kennedy probably would like to forget the past. However, I think everyone out of her circle prefers to repurpose past material. We've seen the canonization of Thrawn, the TIE Defender, and Dark Troopers. And they've all been met positively by the fans.

Really, I think what Mando does next will determine if the Carano issue really has legs (as well as how her stint with The Daily Wire goes). If the next arc is even half as engaging as Baby Yoda, I think people will move on.

[Draco Dracul]

YOu do know that Kylo Ren was a bad guy and a mouth piece in the last jedi right? PS who cares about comics?

Is he? Because the film pretty firmly rejects his philosophy and he ends the film miserable and alone.

[Thebestoftherest]

Wasn't a mouth piece.