A Criticism of the Prequel Trilogy That Kinda Bugs Me

[Winter]

I think this is actually what doomed the whole enterprise. Starting off being like "Let's start off just like A New Hope" leaves the next movie nothing to do. Was Rey supposed to just do the Luke and Yoda thing, then run off to save her friends before her training was complete, so that Ren could reveal the secret of her parentage while cutting off one of her hands?

Minus the hand cutting that is actually what happened. Rey went to Luke to get training and left before he could teach her the third lesson (deleted scenes do not count), to save her somehow now friend Kylo Ren and Kylo revealed the dark secret of her parentage, (at least what WAS the dark secret at the time).

[TulipQulqu]

I think this is actually what doomed the whole enterprise. Starting off being like "Let's start off just like A New Hope" leaves the next movie nothing to do. Was Rey supposed to just do the Luke and Yoda thing, then run off to save her friends before her training was complete, so that Ren could reveal the secret of her parentage while cutting off one of her hands?

Minus the hand cutting that is actually what happened. Rey went to Luke to get training and left before he could teach her the third lesson (deleted scenes do not count), to save her somehow now friend Kylo Ren and Kylo revealed the dark secret of her parentage, (at least what WAS the dark secret at the time).

Plenty of people sure freaked about it not being what the expected, so I think in any case it was non-trivially novel. Real unclear if Kylo Ren was ever Rey's friend. The dark secret being "there is nothing there" is pretty different from following the cliche.

[Winter]

I think this is actually what doomed the whole enterprise. Starting off being like "Let's start off just like A New Hope" leaves the next movie nothing to do. Was Rey supposed to just do the Luke and Yoda thing, then run off to save her friends before her training was complete, so that Ren could reveal the secret of her parentage while cutting off one of her hands?

Minus the hand cutting that is actually what happened. Rey went to Luke to get training and left before he could teach her the third lesson (deleted scenes do not count), to save her somehow now friend Kylo Ren and Kylo revealed the dark secret of her parentage, (at least what WAS the dark secret at the time).

Plenty of people sure freaked about it not being what the expected, so I think in any case it was non-trivially novel. Real unclear if Kylo Ren was ever Rey's friend. The dark secret being "there is nothing there" is pretty different from following the cliche.

That's not really the point the point is that they're similar enough so that the differences are ultimately trivial. Rise of Skywalker is overall the most different film in TDST as it has VERY little in common with its TOT counterpart. There is no point where the heroes have to save one of their own from a crime lord, no primitive alien race that helps over throw the Empire and even Rey and Kylo's arcs have little to nothing in common with Luke and Vader's.

The problem is it has just enough in common with Return of the Jedi that those differences are trivial for most people with even those defending TFA and TLJ saying that ROS is just Return that's been slightly altered.

Chuck said it best in his Rip-off vs. Inspiration, that being the difference between the two is that one adds its own spin and the other is just the original only slightly altered.

Rey went to Luke so he could train her, Luke was hesitant to train her for personal reasons but was convinced by an old friend to give her a chance, during said training Rey goes into a cave that has a strong connection to the Dark Side and when entering it she is confronted by herself. Also during her training she learns that someone she's come to care about... SOMEHOW ... needs to be saved and leaves before her training is complete to save them. However, this is a task she fails at and during said failed task she learns the truth about her history that, should, shake her to her core.

To quote Linkara in relation to his Blue Beetle Retrospective, I don't dislike because it's different I dislike it because it's NOT different.

[McAvoy]

The Sequel Trilogy on the other hand, started off good. TFA started off good and established what is to come even if it was a carbon copy of ANH. Then it went off the rails.

I think this is actually what doomed the whole enterprise. Starting off being like "Let's start off just like A New Hope" leaves the next movie nothing to do. Was Rey supposed to just do the Luke and Yoda thing, then run off to save her friends before her training was complete, so that Ren could reveal the secret of her parentage while cutting off one of her hands?

It would be a stupid joke. A sequel trilogy that is just the exact beats of the original but with better VFX and more diversity is obscene. It is the death of efforts to make new art.

Rey having to deal with her parents being no one of importance is far better than "they were members of this powerful force user family" crap we got.

Rise of Skywalker was somehow worse than even the Prequels.

I hope that wasn't the plan. A carbon copy of Empire and Return of the Jedi.

My point is that there was something that was started in TFA. And it coukd have been written as a trilogy in a competent way.

Exploration of Rey. Make her stumble and fall. And then get up back stronger than ever. Her parents could have easily been nobodies.

There was many possible ways to write Luke into a positive light so to speak without making him look like a angry alien titty drinking hobo. He could have been written as to looking into the origins of Snoke. An ancient Sith Lord that somehow came back or something.

[Winter]

Exploration of Rey. Make her stumble and fall. And then get up back stronger than ever. Her parents could have easily been nobodies.

What bugs me is that there WAS a way for everyone to win in regards to Rey and would have fixed a LOT of the problems with her. During her interrogation scene with Kylo have it start out the same right up to the Monster Wearing a Mask line and then, right after Kylo takes off his mask, we get this bit of dialogue.

""Rey": Hello, Ben.

Kylo: Kira.

And then the scene changes and we learn that Rey/Kira was a student at Luke's school and that she knew Ben Solo and was friends with him. She's not related to anyone she was just one of many Jedi Padawans at the Jedi Academy and when Kylo fell to the Dark Side and killed everyone Kira managed to escape and went to Tatooine to hide.

And all that would need to change is that Kira didn't want to go back to wait for her parents but instead she was trying to hide from Kylo because she was afraid he would find her.

BOOM Done! We now have an origin for Rey. We now know why she was on Jakku, we also learn that she's been trained in the Force which will come into play later and we've set up her character arc. Rey has been running away from Kylo her whole life, fearing what he would do to her if he ever caught her and now it's happened and he's already tried to tortured her and will soon hurt her friends and maybe even use her to find Luke and finish what he started.

Rey's arc then is to try and make up for what she sees as her mistakes. She ran from Kylo when he fell and throughout most of their scenes together Kylo keeps trying to push the narrative that Kira was somehow at fault for his fall to the dark side and that she has to be the one who makes amends, a tactic often used by abusers against their victims. This, as well as her connection to Kylo as Ben, helps to explain why she is more willing to try and redeem him later in TLJ.

This also helps to set her apart from Luke as she has a history with the villain, he's someone she knows, someone she was friends with and maybe someone she had romantic feelings for. This could also help set up for a more powerful moment with a few minor changes. During the final battle instead of Finn going up against Kylo who beats him so badly that he's put into a Coma only for Rey to come in and beat Kylo it's a two on one fight with Kira and Finn vs. Kylo with Finn still being the one who weilds the Lightsaber while Kira uses a Storm Trooper Baton.

As before Finn still ends up in a coma and Kira manages to beat Kylo back but she uses her anger to do so and that ends up scaring her more then anything as she needed to use the Dark Side to even stop Kylo but unlike the film Kira DOESN'T defeat Kylo, she only beats him back long enough for Chewie to save her and Finn.

Kira now finds herself in a situation where she must get involved. Kylo found her and in doing so killed Han and put Finn in a coma and what's worse she needed to tap into the Dark Side and she doesn't want to end up like Kylo so she now must go to Luke in order to find him and get him back in the fight. But now there's more then just her needing a teacher, Kira is partly hoping that Luke will just be able to solve this problem so she won't have to face her demons. However, Kira's arc is all about confronting her demons as she'll have to face Kylo and no matter how much she may want to avoid it she will have to face him again and do so without tapping into the Dark Side again.

The problem with Rey is that the films were obsessed with her mysterious backstory and it hindered her character so much that the TLJ did everything it could to focus as much on Luke and Kylo's conflict as possible and even cut out one of her most important scenes because it would be giving her something other then her mysterious backstory to work with.

[McAvoy]

That's a nice approach actually. That would have definitely fleshed out Rey better and give a legit storyline to follow between Rey and Ren.

The other thing it would make her less of a Mary Sue too. That she isn't this all powerful untapped Force sensitive person. She could have been easily a middle of the road New Jedi padawan. Someone who barely beat Kylo because he was very injured and she tapped into the Dark Side.

It would make Kylo more of a credible threat to everyone. That he was more powerful than her. Tweak Kylo is less of a emotional bremat and then you got something too.

Hell, you could have Luke being brought in as the only person that can fight Kylo on a even footing. Maybe actually explore that Finn is in fact Force sensitive and have Rey teach him too.

[Winter]

That's a nice approach actually. That would have definitely fleshed out Rey better and give a legit storyline to follow between Rey and Ren.

The other thing it would make her less of a Mary Sue too. That she isn't this all powerful untapped Force sensitive person. She could have been easily a middle of the road New Jedi padawan. Someone who barely beat Kylo because he was very injured and she tapped into the Dark Side.

It would make Kylo more of a credible threat to everyone. That he was more powerful than her. Tweak Kylo is less of a emotional bremat and then you got something too.

Hell, you could have Luke being brought in as the only person that can fight Kylo on a even footing. Maybe actually explore that Finn is in fact Force sensitive and have Rey teach him too.

Another option would be to remove Rey and make Finn the main character. Still a girl as Lucas' Original plans for the Sequel Trilogy would be to follow Luke's Twin Sister, The Thrawn Trilogy had Mara Jade as the main protagonist and in the rough draft Lucas made for Episode 7 he did have Rey/Kira as the main character (and yes I think in every version of the Sequel Trilogy that the characters name should be Kira as it sounds better then Rey and is a LOT more subtle as Kira means beam of light).

Have her arc in the first movie be her trying to break away from the first order and have part of that be bounding with Ben Skywalker and Jaina Solo (played by Driver and Ridley respectively (as for John Boyega I would actually cast him as Kyle Katarn and just adapt Dark Force to the screen instead of Rogue One which I personally find to be a VERY underwhelming film)). Kylo is a Jedi killer but someone who has a history with Kira as before but this time it's tied into their connection to the First Order instead of the Jedi or the Republic and Kylo in this version I would also make into a girl because why not.

Having it were Kira left and is revealed to be a Force Sensitive (hence why Ben and Jaina try to bond with her) turns this into a personally vendetta for Kylo who felt that Kira was the only person she felt close to and thus raising the question if Kira can redeem her or not.

The relationship between Kylo and Rey is key to all this as it's, IMO, part of the reason both characters failed in the end as Rey was just suddenly ready to forgive Kylo for no real reason and Kylo became obsessed with her before he even learned she was Force Sensitive. Having some history makes this bond more engaging as any betrayal is taken more personally and makes us WANT there to be a redemption beyond being just a copy and paste of Vader's arc.

In the upcoming Raya and the Last Dragon it's been revealed that the film's antagonist, Namaari, tried to bond with Raya and betrayed that trust BUT Raya still clearly feels some sort of connection to her she kept the necklace that Namaari gave to her when they were kids.

This has real potential to add to both characters as this isn't just a usual hero vs. villain relationship but something that ties the two together. A personal betrayal and yet they still want a connection and have more in common then either of them are aware of (both apparently have a love for Dragons and are doing what they're doing to save the world and those they love).

I think the only reason Reylo is as popular as it is was purely due to both actors chemistry NOT how they were written because I honestly feel it was VERY Badly Written.

[Makeshift Python]

Rey having to deal with her parents being no one of importance is far better than "they were members of this powerful force user family" crap we got.

Rise of Skywalker was somehow worse than even the Prequels.

One of the things I like about TLJ is that it de-emphasizes the importance of bloodlines in favor of saying EVERYONE has the potential. Rey didn't need to be related to anyone in order to justify why the Force chose her, just was that broom boy didn't need to be related to anyone either. You can see that throughout the writing, like how Luke refers to "that mighty Skywalker blood" in a certain tone.

It's basically de-emphasizing the importance of medichlorians and going back to Yoda trying to teach Luke about mind over muscle in TESB. Being the best Jedi isn't about doing sick moves with a light saber or doing backward flips. It's all about your mind and how you strengthen it. Truthfully, if you wanted to show how powerful Luke was in that Mandalorian episode, instead of showing off sick moves it should have just been him walking into the room, raising his hand up and the doing a gesture, next we see all the robots shut down and fall to the floor, showing that this Luke never had to raise a lightsaber to save the day. "Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter".

But I get it, it wouldn't have been as "fun" to watch for many fans.

[McAvoy]

Rey having to deal with her parents being no one of importance is far better than "they were members of this powerful force user family" crap we got.

Rise of Skywalker was somehow worse than even the Prequels.

One of the things I like about TLJ is that it de-emphasizes the importance of bloodlines in favor of saying EVERYONE has the potential. Rey didn't need to be related to anyone in order to justify why the Force chose her, just was that broom boy didn't need to be related to anyone either. You can see that throughout the writing, like how Luke refers to "that mighty Skywalker blood" in a certain tone.

It's basically de-emphasizing the importance of medichlorians and going back to Yoda trying to teach Luke about mind over muscle in TESB. Being the best Jedi isn't about doing sick moves with a light saber or doing backward flips. It's all about your mind and how you strengthen it. Truthfully, if you wanted to show how powerful Luke was in that Mandalorian episode, instead of showing off sick moves it should have just been him walking into the room, raising his hand up and the doing a gesture, next we see all the robots shut down and fall to the floor, showing that this Luke never had to raise a lightsaber to save the day. "Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter".

But I get it, it wouldn't have been as "fun" to watch for many fans.

TBH, the broom boy to me isn't that big of a deal. If you know your Star Wars, than you know that the Old Republic Jedi took Force sensitive kids from all over. They were not born from some famous family of powerful Jedi.

So that big reveal in the end at a time where there is no Jedi and certainly no system to detect them, wasn't that big a deal either.

With that said, it made sense Rey to have nobody blood in her too. And I agree with you on that. That part I never had a problem with.

I certainly had a problem with her being a Palpatine. It just made the whole nine movie trilogy of Skywalker versus Palpatine bloodline.

[Winter]

I certainly had a problem with her being a Palpatine. It just made the whole nine movie trilogy of Skywalker versus Palpatine bloodline.

Yeah, with ROS the whole "Skywalker Saga" plot becomes "One @$$hold screws with a family until he gets them all killed and his granddaughter takes said family's name".

But back over to Rey, I was okay with her being related to nobody the problem is she had no arc and the films just avoid answering why she's so skilled in the Force. Like I said, you could have had it where she was just one of Luke's students in his school who knew Ben before he became Kylo and it would have been fine.

TFA made a big deal about how powerful and UNTRAINED Rey was in the Force and the Trilogies BEFORE TDST made a big deal about needing training and that there were no short cuts... Unless your name happens to be Rey and then you can skip all that needless training and character development to get to the good stuff.

Whether a character is related to a "Important" bloodline or comes from nothing doesn't matter if said character is still super good and practically perfect in every way with no training. What is the difference between "This person who is part of some great bloodline who has the power to save us all" and "This person who comes from nothing has the power to save us all"?

A chosen one can work and make for a compelling story a character who comes from a royal bloodline can work and someone who comes from nothing can work but they all require the same thing. Effort!

Based on just TFA and TLJ Rey is the most powerful Force User who requires no training and defeats every opponent she goes up against even though, again, she has no real training. Why, because the Force choose her and because the plot said so. She didn't earn her powers she just got them which is just as bad as when it happens in standard chosen one arc and it's annoying!!!