A Criticism of the Prequel Trilogy That Kinda Bugs Me

[McAvoy]

I certainly had a problem with her being a Palpatine. It just made the whole nine movie trilogy of Skywalker versus Palpatine bloodline.

Yeah, with ROS the whole "Skywalker Saga" plot becomes "One @$$hold screws with a family until he gets them all killed and his granddaughter takes said family's name".

But back over to Rey, I was okay with her being related to nobody the problem is she had no arc and the films just avoid answering why she's so skilled in the Force. Like I said, you could have had it where she was just one of Luke's students in his school who knew Ben before he became Kylo and it would have been fine.

TFA made a big deal about how powerful and UNTRAINED Rey was in the Force and the Trilogies BEFORE TDST made a big deal about needing training and that there were no short cuts... Unless your name happens to be Rey and then you can skip all that needless training and character development to get to the good stuff.

Whether a character is related to a "Important" bloodline or comes from nothing doesn't matter if said character is still super good and practically perfect in every way with no training. What is the difference between "This person who is part of some great bloodline who has the power to save us all" and "This person who comes from nothing has the power to save us all"?

A chosen one can work and make for a compelling story a character who comes from a royal bloodline can work and someone who comes from nothing can work but they all require the same thing. Effort!

Based on just TFA and TLJ Rey is the most powerful Force User who requires no training and defeats every opponent she goes up against even though, again, she has no real training. Why, because the Force choose her and because the plot said so. She didn't earn her powers she just got them which is just as bad as when it happens in standard chosen one arc and it's annoying!!!

I totally agree. There is a reason why she is considered a Mary Sue. Is better at everything than anyone. ROS kinda made it look like like she is a better pilot than even Poe too.

[Winter]

ROS kinda made it look like like she is a better pilot than even Poe too.

What do you mean kinda made it look like the film makes a point of comparing how much better Rey is at piloting next to Poe when Chewie roars something and Poe responds with quote "Yeah, well Rey's not here is she?"

At the end of She-Ra's last season Adora, her eyes filled with tears, leaves Bow and Glimmer behind to sacrifice herself she tells them, again quote "I never could have done any of this without you." and that's true. As powerful as She-Ra is she never would have gotten as far as she did without Glimmer, Bow and later Catra's help. Adora is powerful but she not a God.

If Rey had said that we all would have laughed because if anything Finn and Poe slow Rey down. She's had to save them so many times that the only reason they're likely in ROS is to insure that Rey doesn't solve the plot to quickly. And when it looks like she might need help, Ben arriving, he actually makes the situation worse and Rey needs to defeat Palpatine on her own and the Jedi help her by... telling her to not give up... and... then she defeats Palpatine by using two lightsabers instead of just one and Palpatine dies... because he doesn't know how to turn off his Force lighting...

Has anyone mentioned that ROS is kinda stupid? Because it's kinda stupid.

What's even funnier is that Mara's arc is TTT is all about her excepting help from others and trusting in those she once thought as enemies to defend those who would hurt them. Leia lets her see through her eyes while Luke distracts C'baoth long enough for Mara to get the killing blow.

It's really annoying when the theme park Ride, Rise of the Resistance, makes better use of Finn and Poe then the actually trilogy does.

[McAvoy]

ROS kinda made it look like like she is a better pilot than even Poe too.

What do you mean kinda made it look like the film makes a point of comparing how much better Rey is at piloting next to Poe when Chewie roars something and Poe responds with quote "Yeah, well Rey's not here is she?"

At the end of She-Ra's last season Adora, her eyes filled with tears, leaves Bow and Glimmer behind to sacrifice herself she tells them, again quote "I never could have done any of this without you." and that's true. As powerful as She-Ra is she never would have gotten as far as she did without Glimmer, Bow and later Catra's help. Adora is powerful but she not a God.

If Rey had said that we all would have laughed because if anything Finn and Poe slow Rey down. She's had to save them so many times that the only reason they're likely in ROS is to insure that Rey doesn't solve the plot to quickly. And when it looks like she might need help, Ben arriving, he actually makes the situation worse and Rey needs to defeat Palpatine on her own and the Jedi help her by... telling her to not give up... and... then she defeats Palpatine by using two lightsabers instead of just one and Palpatine dies... because he doesn't know how to turn off his Force lighting...

Has anyone mentioned that ROS is kinda stupid? Because it's kinda stupid.

What's even funnier is that Mara's arc is TTT is all about her excepting help from others and trusting in those she once thought as enemies to defend those who would hurt them. Leia lets her see through her eyes while Luke distracts C'baoth long enough for Mara to get the killing blow.

It's really annoying when the theme park Ride, Rise of the Resistance, makes better use of Finn and Poe then the actually trilogy does.

That was my saying that I knew something was said but not sure who said it. So kinda.

Winter, do me a favor. I have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to She Ra. I only know as much as what I remember from my childhood and that was 30 years ago. So please keep it to Star Wars.

[Winter]

That was my saying that I knew something was said but not sure who said it. So kinda.

Winter, do me a favor. I have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to She Ra. I only know as much as what I remember from my childhood and that was 30 years ago. So please keep it to Star Wars.

I'm actually talking about She-Ra and the Princesses of Power which ended last year and the reason I keep bringing it up is that it has several elements in common with TDST which makes going over the issues I have with TDST a lot easier.

Case in point, Catradora vs. Reylo. Both are enemies turned friends turned lovers but one is seen by everyone as not only a great step for LGBT representation but just good writing overall. Catra and Adora knew each other since they were kids and it's obvious to anyone who meets them that they are in love but due to them both having a warped view of the world thanks to their surrogate mother, Shadow Weaver, parenting they are unable to recognize that the love they have for each other is reciprocated which is furthered complicated by other issues they have which is also a result of Shadow Weaver's "Wonderful" Parenting (God I hate that woman).

Reylo... makes no sense and gets worse the more I see it. Kylo hurts everyone Rey cares about then 3 conversations later she is ready to forgive him because he has a tragic backstory. Never mind the fact that he killed a whole school of Jedi for the crime of not wanting to join him, never mind the fact that he killed Han for petty reasons and never mind he put Finn in a coma. Noooo, Kylo make a sad face and suddenly he deserves Rey's sympathy despite him doing NOTHING to show that he's changed and has no interest in changing.

She-Ra came out in 2018 and from the start it shared a lot in common with TDST (Adora is also a former minion of evil who turns against the empire she serves for moral reason and Catra is Kylo if he was actually competent).

I can't stop bringing it up because it's, IMO, TDST done right. If you can I would recommend checking it out as even ignoring the similarities with TDST and how it, again just my opinion, better executes them it's just a great show. I promise you there will be at least ONE character you will come to like if not outright love.

[Makeshift Python]

I certainly had a problem with her being a Palpatine. It just made the whole nine movie trilogy of Skywalker versus Palpatine bloodline.

Yeah, with ROS the whole "Skywalker Saga" plot becomes "One @$$hold screws with a family until he gets them all killed and his granddaughter takes said family's name".

But back over to Rey, I was okay with her being related to nobody the problem is she had no arc and the films just avoid answering why she's so skilled in the Force. Like I said, you could have had it where she was just one of Luke's students in his school who knew Ben before he became Kylo and it would have been fine.

TFA made a big deal about how powerful and UNTRAINED Rey was in the Force and the Trilogies BEFORE TDST made a big deal about needing training and that there were no short cuts... Unless your name happens to be Rey and then you can skip all that needless training and character development to get to the good stuff.

Whether a character is related to a "Important" bloodline or comes from nothing doesn't matter if said character is still super good and practically perfect in every way with no training. What is the difference between "This person who is part of some great bloodline who has the power to save us all" and "This person who comes from nothing has the power to save us all"?

A chosen one can work and make for a compelling story a character who comes from a royal bloodline can work and someone who comes from nothing can work but they all require the same thing. Effort!

Based on just TFA and TLJ Rey is the most powerful Force User who requires no training and defeats every opponent she goes up against even though, again, she has no real training. Why, because the Force choose her and because the plot said so. She didn't earn her powers she just got them which is just as bad as when it happens in standard chosen one arc and it's annoying!!!

Honestly, I think fans get way too upset and fixated over the training thing. I couldn't give a shit about that stuff. I've already seen the training with Luke, I don't need to spend another movie seeing that all over again with a new character. So HOW did she get so good? For me it comes down to two things: 1) The Force chose her, so she's pretty much got that going for her. 2) She was able to learn a lot of tricks from that attempted mind extraction from Kylo Ren.

Honestly, that's fine by me. So by the time she gets those Jedi text books starts studying/training by TROS, I have no problems with watching her do magic back flips.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I certainly had a problem with her being a Palpatine. It just made the whole nine movie trilogy of Skywalker versus Palpatine bloodline.

Yeah, with ROS the whole "Skywalker Saga" plot becomes "One @$$hold screws with a family until he gets them all killed and his granddaughter takes said family's name".

But back over to Rey, I was okay with her being related to nobody the problem is she had no arc and the films just avoid answering why she's so skilled in the Force. Like I said, you could have had it where she was just one of Luke's students in his school who knew Ben before he became Kylo and it would have been fine.

TFA made a big deal about how powerful and UNTRAINED Rey was in the Force and the Trilogies BEFORE TDST made a big deal about needing training and that there were no short cuts... Unless your name happens to be Rey and then you can skip all that needless training and character development to get to the good stuff.

Whether a character is related to a "Important" bloodline or comes from nothing doesn't matter if said character is still super good and practically perfect in every way with no training. What is the difference between "This person who is part of some great bloodline who has the power to save us all" and "This person who comes from nothing has the power to save us all"?

A chosen one can work and make for a compelling story a character who comes from a royal bloodline can work and someone who comes from nothing can work but they all require the same thing. Effort!

Based on just TFA and TLJ Rey is the most powerful Force User who requires no training and defeats every opponent she goes up against even though, again, she has no real training. Why, because the Force choose her and because the plot said so. She didn't earn her powers she just got them which is just as bad as when it happens in standard chosen one arc and it's annoying!!!

Honestly, I think fans get way too upset and fixated over the training thing. I couldn't give a shit about that stuff. I've already seen the training with Luke, I don't need to spend another movie seeing that all over again with a new character. So HOW did she get so good? For me it comes down to two things: 1) The Force chose her, so she's pretty much got that going for her. 2) She was able to learn a lot of tricks from that attempted mind extraction from Kylo Ren.

Honestly, that's fine by me. So by the time she gets those Jedi text books starts studying/training by TROS, I have no problems with watching her do magic back flips.

There was also nothing in the other movies before TFA that said that someone has to have training in order to be able to use the force, along with the fact that Luke blew up the Deathstar with force powers and minimal training. There's also no evidence that Rey is an all powerful jedi for that matter as they never establish that mind tricks are necessarily that advanced..

[Winter]

Honestly, I think fans get way too upset and fixated over the training thing. I couldn't give a shit about that stuff. I've already seen the training with Luke, I don't need to spend another movie seeing that all over again with a new character. So HOW did she get so good? For me it comes down to two things: 1) The Force chose her, so she's pretty much got that going for her. 2) She was able to learn a lot of tricks from that attempted mind extraction from Kylo Ren.

Honestly, that's fine by me. So by the time she gets those Jedi text books starts studying/training by TROS, I have no problems with watching her do magic back flips.

If that's your opinion then more power to you, and I mean that sincerely. The reason it bugs me is because Star Wars has made a big deal about characters needing to train and that there is a difference between taking the time and effort to learn instead of taking the quick and easy way is a major theme of the series. Most other Star Wars stories make a big deal about characters needing to train.

Rebels, The Mandalorian, The Prequel Trilogy, The Clone Wars, The Original Trilogy, Knights of the Old Republic and The Thrawn Trilogy have made a big deal about you have power you need training in order to know how to use it. And even for those who are gifted it takes years of training to do all the impressive things we see Force users do. But Rey learns she has powers and in a few days, at most, she's able to achieve skills that took the other characters I mentioned years if not decades to learn and master.

Over on Star Trek fans of the series were not happy how quickly Kirk became captain in the 2009 film and even fewer fans were pleased with how Michael became captain in season 3 for making ONE hard choice. This is because the series itself keeps making a big deal of what it takes to sit in the captains chair, that you can't just become a captain because you did one or two impressive feats and that giving someone the chair to earlier or someone who is not as prepared as they think they are ALWAYS leads to disaster.

but Kirk saves Earth one time and Michael chooses to sacrifice one crew mate and that's enough to prove to their superiors that they are worthy of becoming a Captain? To quote Linkara on the latter becoming a Captain.

https://twitter.com/Linkara19/status/13 ... 3026054144

For me Rey being a chosen one and learning her powers by basically just copying someone else's home work goes against one of the major themes of the series which is why it bugs me.

[Nealithi]

There was also nothing in the other movies before TFA that said that someone has to have training in order to be able to use the force, along with the fact that Luke blew up the Deathstar with force powers and minimal training. There's also no evidence that Rey is an all powerful jedi for that matter as they never establish that mind tricks are necessarily that advanced..

Thing is Luke taking out the Death Star with minimal training and Anakin taking out the droid control ship with no force training still had something in common. Both were skilled pilots with great reflexes before they got where the force directed them. Luke could already fly and hit objects about the size of the exhaust port. To use the Force he basically had to stop being nervous and get in the zone as it were.
Anakin had been flying for years. (Impressive for a nine year old) and was a race pilot in a race humans are not quick enough to do. When he got control back of his fighter he did not dog fight he flew as he was best able and the force dropped him where he needed to be to be lucky.

But refined skills like telekinesis and suggestion were shown to need practice to perform.
To put it another way. You can be born with great balance and agility. But you are not going to out do an Olympic gymnast or circus trapeze artist without training.

[Winter]

There was also nothing in the other movies before TFA that said that someone has to have training in order to be able to use the force, along with the fact that Luke blew up the Deathstar with force powers and minimal training. There's also no evidence that Rey is an all powerful jedi for that matter as they never establish that mind tricks are necessarily that advanced..

Thing is Luke taking out the Death Star with minimal training and Anakin taking out the droid control ship with no force training still had something in common. Both were skilled pilots with great reflexes before they got where the force directed them. Luke could already fly and hit objects about the size of the exhaust port. To use the Force he basically had to stop being nervous and get in the zone as it were.
Anakin had been flying for years. (Impressive for a nine year old) and was a race pilot in a race humans are not quick enough to do. When he got control back of his fighter he did not dog fight he flew as he was best able and the force dropped him where he needed to be to be lucky.

But refined skills like telekinesis and suggestion were shown to need practice to perform.
To put it another way. You can be born with great balance and agility. But you are not going to out do an Olympic gymnast or circus trapeze artist without training.

That's really good, can I borrow that?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

There was also nothing in the other movies before TFA that said that someone has to have training in order to be able to use the force, along with the fact that Luke blew up the Deathstar with force powers and minimal training. There's also no evidence that Rey is an all powerful jedi for that matter as they never establish that mind tricks are necessarily that advanced..

Thing is Luke taking out the Death Star with minimal training and Anakin taking out the droid control ship with no force training still had something in common. Both were skilled pilots with great reflexes before they got where the force directed them. Luke could already fly and hit objects about the size of the exhaust port. To use the Force he basically had to stop being nervous and get in the zone as it were.
Anakin had been flying for years. (Impressive for a nine year old) and was a race pilot in a race humans are not quick enough to do. When he got control back of his fighter he did not dog fight he flew as he was best able and the force dropped him where he needed to be to be lucky.

But refined skills like telekinesis and suggestion were shown to need practice to perform.
To put it another way. You can be born with great balance and agility. But you are not going to out do an Olympic gymnast or circus trapeze artist without training.

I'm not sure how many times you've given a response like this, but again, Luke having piloted hover cars 1 foot off the ground has no implication of being able to pilot an x-wing in space and make the shot he did.