WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
-
- Captain
- Posts: 3739
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:22 pm
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
I just hope the director get off scot free, I got enough crooks running free because of their position in real life, don't need that in my super heroes works.
- Beelzquill
- Officer
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:55 am
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
I don't really get why they made director Hayward such an asshole in this series. I mean, a villain who wants to get the vision activated for his own use sure, but a guy who takes shots at literal children in broad daylight in front of his men? Seriously, his IQ went to 0 real quick. I liked the Theseus ship discussion.
-
- Captain
- Posts: 3739
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:22 pm
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
That is fair, plus what exactly was he planning on doing how would killing children help his cause.
- CharlesPhipps
- Captain
- Posts: 4941
- Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
I think the problem isn't with Hayward. The problem is the show unwittingly made its heroine a monster. Hayward is meant to be an unreasonable psychopath but the problem is of such horrifying magnitude that the reasonable response is to shoot Wanda.Beelzquill wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:47 am I don't really get why they made director Hayward such an asshole in this series. I mean, a villain who wants to get the vision activated for his own use sure, but a guy who takes shots at literal children in broad daylight in front of his men? Seriously, his IQ went to 0 real quick. I liked the Theseus ship discussion.
I figure hayward thinks they're Satanic magical constructs that will help Wanda with their superpowers.Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:56 am That is fair, plus what exactly was he planning on doing how would killing children help his cause.
Like the actual Billy and Tommy in the comics.
Last edited by CharlesPhipps on Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- CharlesPhipps
- Captain
- Posts: 4941
- Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogsp ... eview.html
Being an author doesn't leave as much time for reviews as I used to do and so my blog has suffered a bit. However, I still manage to squeeze in time for a review of books and games that I like. Generally, I don't try to review the big stuff because there's no point. Reviewing WandaVision would be pointless if I was trying to draw attention to it. Millions of people have already watched the show and it's in no need of me spreading the word about it. It would only be worthwhile if I had something interesting and unique to say about the show. Maybe?
Having watched WandaVision from beginning to end, I have mixed feelings about the problem. It's something that aspired to David Lynch meets Marvel comics greatness but never quite lands where it should. This is a show that has the freedom to color outside the lines of the MCU and I think that it sort of made a mess rather than pure art. So, this is going to be a partially negative review of the show as I discuss a show that has three or four good episodes, one fantastic one, plus a few terrible ones.
The premise of the show is hard to tell without spoiling everything as it's a mystery box show where the point is to gradually reveal all the strings coming together. A well done mystery box show has you walk into the storyline, sit down, and watch it gradually unfold. Really, you shouldn't be spoiled about anything for that but I'm not sure that WandaVision is that show. Honestly, I think the show probably would have been better if it had been re-edited as a narrative that didn't attempt to hide anything from the audience. So, with that in mind, I'm going to discuss the show with spoilers free. You have been warned.
What is WandaVision? WandaVision is a follow up to Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. The Vision was killed by Thanos after a failed attempt to keep him from the Infinity stones and Wanda was left devastated. In an attempt to deal with her grief, she creates a fantastical alternate reality where sitcom television tropes are literal and her husband is still alive. Unfortunately, this results in 2000 people in a small New Jersey town being trapped in an artificial reality where they are forced to playact as Wanda's oddball neighbors.
It is a fantastic premise and one that draws from multiple works that I have enjoyed. This includes the Twilight Zone episode, "It's a Good Life" a.k.a "the one about the kid who can wish people into the cornfield." Another source is drawing from multiple comic book stores involving both the Vision and the Scarlet Witch. The John Byrne West Coast Avengers stories where they lost their kids and he was rebuilt as a soulless robot, The Vision comics where Vision attempts to build an artificial family, and House of M where Wanda creates an elaborate fantasy land where every hero gets what they want.
Part of the problem is the fact that many a comic book fan knew where most of these stories were going and even those who weren't suspected the truth. Many people had theories about Mephisto or Nightmare but the most obvious candidate was Wanda herself. We also had the revelation that Katherine Hahn's "Agnes" would be Agatha Harkness and the SWORD agents would be bad. All of which came true.
My three least favorite episodes of the series are the first three of the series because they're extended parodies of 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s situation comedies. It's essentially an extended joke that the series believes we'll be mesmerized by. As excellent as Paul Bettany's comedic timing is and as lovely as Elizabeth Olsen is in a Zatanna outfit, none of it really landed for me. It felt like a five minute joke extended into an hour and a half movie. It didn't require entire episodes to establish them in a sitcom and the weirdness is not that far removed from the MCU to really sustain it.
The fourth episode, where everything is tied back into the greater Marvel Cinematic Universe, was easily the best and that was because we had likable characters like Monica Rambeau as well as Jimmy Woo working to save everyone in the town. Oh and Darcy too. Silly as it sounds, it felt far more like the kind of show I wanted to see where there was a big supernatural problem and our heroes were trying to solve it.
Unfortunately, that is the central flaw of WandaVision: the story I want to see is not the one they want to tell. I want to see a Agents of SWORD season about Monica and her friends trying to save the town. It looks awesome and the stakes are desperate. The show is interested in exploring Wanda's complete break from reality and the people of Westview are really just props to deal with that story. The problem is that the stakes are too high and the people of the town exist enough to be cared about. Wanda's grief just does not matter nearly as much as Dottie's (Sarah's) and the other people who would rather die than remain part of her false reality.
Really, I think the show picked up tremendously when the fake Pietro showed up and we were left speculating if Quicksilver was coming back. Also, Katherine Han's Agnes was her second best supervillain role after Doctor Octopus in Enter the Spider-Verse. However, those do feel like they should have been earlier reveals. It's a harsh statement but the show was good when it was like a superhero show and bad when it was trying to be a meditation on grief or weird Lynchian mystery. The mystery just wasn't that compelling.
I should note that some fans were disappointed with the fact some of their fan theories weren't true like there would be a tie-in to the X-men, that Fake Pietro was the one from the Fox movies, or that there wasn't an introduction to Reed Richards or Ben Grimm. I think this is a bit more on the fans than the show. The show introduced Photon, brought in Jimmy Woo, returned Darcy, acknowledged the Darkhold, and did plenty of other deep cuts. I also think it gave a decent number of answers to the questions raised and that was more than most shows have delivered.
I think the ending is also somewhat flat too. Wanda is revealed to have done most of the horrifying kidnapping and mind-rape that is the basis of the show but is let off the hook by "sacrificing" her summoned husband as well as children. This isn't exactly atonement given if you give up your resurrected husband you sacrificed people to bring back, you're not a hero. You're still just a necromancer. We also resurrected Vision but he somehow didn't think that it was appropriate to go down and deal with his insane girlfriend. There's just not enough closure when we could have had a more final ending.
I was very often entertained by WandaVision but it was the cast acting in spite of the script and its premise. I think I would have enjoyed a series about the Vision and Wanda actually moving into a neighborhood and dealing with the fact the locals don't want them there (that was actually a comic book story in an Avengers annual I read), Wanda being a prisoner of a being like Nightmare, or a SWORD series than what I got. Everyone is acting great and whenever they're not engaged with the plot or parodying sitcoms then the show is great. When they are, then the show skids to a halt. I'm here for, "It was Agnes All Along" and Halloween shenanigans but not Wanda reassuring herself enslaving people is okay if they are brainwashed into liking it.
Could they have done more? Yeah, they could have done more but I think WandaVision's biggest problem is that it really is a two hour movie that could have been trimmed down and rearranged into a pretty solid one. As is, it's bloated and yet somehow skips over a lot of what made it great. The ending didn't require Monica, Darcy, or Agent Woo when it should have heavily involved them. Yet, the show was never interested in them in the first place. As such, I'm not going to say it was a failure but it was full of mistakes.
5/10
Being an author doesn't leave as much time for reviews as I used to do and so my blog has suffered a bit. However, I still manage to squeeze in time for a review of books and games that I like. Generally, I don't try to review the big stuff because there's no point. Reviewing WandaVision would be pointless if I was trying to draw attention to it. Millions of people have already watched the show and it's in no need of me spreading the word about it. It would only be worthwhile if I had something interesting and unique to say about the show. Maybe?
Having watched WandaVision from beginning to end, I have mixed feelings about the problem. It's something that aspired to David Lynch meets Marvel comics greatness but never quite lands where it should. This is a show that has the freedom to color outside the lines of the MCU and I think that it sort of made a mess rather than pure art. So, this is going to be a partially negative review of the show as I discuss a show that has three or four good episodes, one fantastic one, plus a few terrible ones.
The premise of the show is hard to tell without spoiling everything as it's a mystery box show where the point is to gradually reveal all the strings coming together. A well done mystery box show has you walk into the storyline, sit down, and watch it gradually unfold. Really, you shouldn't be spoiled about anything for that but I'm not sure that WandaVision is that show. Honestly, I think the show probably would have been better if it had been re-edited as a narrative that didn't attempt to hide anything from the audience. So, with that in mind, I'm going to discuss the show with spoilers free. You have been warned.
What is WandaVision? WandaVision is a follow up to Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. The Vision was killed by Thanos after a failed attempt to keep him from the Infinity stones and Wanda was left devastated. In an attempt to deal with her grief, she creates a fantastical alternate reality where sitcom television tropes are literal and her husband is still alive. Unfortunately, this results in 2000 people in a small New Jersey town being trapped in an artificial reality where they are forced to playact as Wanda's oddball neighbors.
It is a fantastic premise and one that draws from multiple works that I have enjoyed. This includes the Twilight Zone episode, "It's a Good Life" a.k.a "the one about the kid who can wish people into the cornfield." Another source is drawing from multiple comic book stores involving both the Vision and the Scarlet Witch. The John Byrne West Coast Avengers stories where they lost their kids and he was rebuilt as a soulless robot, The Vision comics where Vision attempts to build an artificial family, and House of M where Wanda creates an elaborate fantasy land where every hero gets what they want.
Part of the problem is the fact that many a comic book fan knew where most of these stories were going and even those who weren't suspected the truth. Many people had theories about Mephisto or Nightmare but the most obvious candidate was Wanda herself. We also had the revelation that Katherine Hahn's "Agnes" would be Agatha Harkness and the SWORD agents would be bad. All of which came true.
My three least favorite episodes of the series are the first three of the series because they're extended parodies of 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s situation comedies. It's essentially an extended joke that the series believes we'll be mesmerized by. As excellent as Paul Bettany's comedic timing is and as lovely as Elizabeth Olsen is in a Zatanna outfit, none of it really landed for me. It felt like a five minute joke extended into an hour and a half movie. It didn't require entire episodes to establish them in a sitcom and the weirdness is not that far removed from the MCU to really sustain it.
The fourth episode, where everything is tied back into the greater Marvel Cinematic Universe, was easily the best and that was because we had likable characters like Monica Rambeau as well as Jimmy Woo working to save everyone in the town. Oh and Darcy too. Silly as it sounds, it felt far more like the kind of show I wanted to see where there was a big supernatural problem and our heroes were trying to solve it.
Unfortunately, that is the central flaw of WandaVision: the story I want to see is not the one they want to tell. I want to see a Agents of SWORD season about Monica and her friends trying to save the town. It looks awesome and the stakes are desperate. The show is interested in exploring Wanda's complete break from reality and the people of Westview are really just props to deal with that story. The problem is that the stakes are too high and the people of the town exist enough to be cared about. Wanda's grief just does not matter nearly as much as Dottie's (Sarah's) and the other people who would rather die than remain part of her false reality.
Really, I think the show picked up tremendously when the fake Pietro showed up and we were left speculating if Quicksilver was coming back. Also, Katherine Han's Agnes was her second best supervillain role after Doctor Octopus in Enter the Spider-Verse. However, those do feel like they should have been earlier reveals. It's a harsh statement but the show was good when it was like a superhero show and bad when it was trying to be a meditation on grief or weird Lynchian mystery. The mystery just wasn't that compelling.
I should note that some fans were disappointed with the fact some of their fan theories weren't true like there would be a tie-in to the X-men, that Fake Pietro was the one from the Fox movies, or that there wasn't an introduction to Reed Richards or Ben Grimm. I think this is a bit more on the fans than the show. The show introduced Photon, brought in Jimmy Woo, returned Darcy, acknowledged the Darkhold, and did plenty of other deep cuts. I also think it gave a decent number of answers to the questions raised and that was more than most shows have delivered.
I think the ending is also somewhat flat too. Wanda is revealed to have done most of the horrifying kidnapping and mind-rape that is the basis of the show but is let off the hook by "sacrificing" her summoned husband as well as children. This isn't exactly atonement given if you give up your resurrected husband you sacrificed people to bring back, you're not a hero. You're still just a necromancer. We also resurrected Vision but he somehow didn't think that it was appropriate to go down and deal with his insane girlfriend. There's just not enough closure when we could have had a more final ending.
I was very often entertained by WandaVision but it was the cast acting in spite of the script and its premise. I think I would have enjoyed a series about the Vision and Wanda actually moving into a neighborhood and dealing with the fact the locals don't want them there (that was actually a comic book story in an Avengers annual I read), Wanda being a prisoner of a being like Nightmare, or a SWORD series than what I got. Everyone is acting great and whenever they're not engaged with the plot or parodying sitcoms then the show is great. When they are, then the show skids to a halt. I'm here for, "It was Agnes All Along" and Halloween shenanigans but not Wanda reassuring herself enslaving people is okay if they are brainwashed into liking it.
Could they have done more? Yeah, they could have done more but I think WandaVision's biggest problem is that it really is a two hour movie that could have been trimmed down and rearranged into a pretty solid one. As is, it's bloated and yet somehow skips over a lot of what made it great. The ending didn't require Monica, Darcy, or Agent Woo when it should have heavily involved them. Yet, the show was never interested in them in the first place. As such, I'm not going to say it was a failure but it was full of mistakes.
5/10
- Rocketboy1313
- Captain
- Posts: 1127
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:17 pm
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
I was surprised how much I was able to call about the series.
The big one being the reason for the whole sitcom gimmick and the other being white vision.
But what I wasn't able to call, Evan Peters being the best meta-joke in the history of the Superheroes.
I also had a bunch of stuff spoiled for me, so I am uncertain how much I would have been able to know or be surprised by if I had seen it in a vacuum.
Strangely there were parts where I was finishing the character's sentences, but that is just comic book dialogue for you, "I will know where to find you" and "You are my hope".
Anyone else like how the Sword logo on Monica's chest toward the end looks like a stylized On/Power Symbol? Considering her energy powers that had to be a conscious choice to serve as a preview to her super suit.
I would like to make a prediction: we are seeing lots of the Young Avengers pop up in the stories. Thinking that Falcon and the Winter Soldier will reveal Patriot and the Captain America history of "Red, White, and Black". I also have to imagine the next Captain Marvel story will deal with Hulkling (who in the comic is a skrull/kree princling)? And the Fantastic Four will have to deal with the Skrulls in General in their first movie.
Lastly,
I share this sentiment.
The big one being the reason for the whole sitcom gimmick and the other being white vision.
But what I wasn't able to call, Evan Peters being the best meta-joke in the history of the Superheroes.
I also had a bunch of stuff spoiled for me, so I am uncertain how much I would have been able to know or be surprised by if I had seen it in a vacuum.
Strangely there were parts where I was finishing the character's sentences, but that is just comic book dialogue for you, "I will know where to find you" and "You are my hope".
Anyone else like how the Sword logo on Monica's chest toward the end looks like a stylized On/Power Symbol? Considering her energy powers that had to be a conscious choice to serve as a preview to her super suit.
I would like to make a prediction: we are seeing lots of the Young Avengers pop up in the stories. Thinking that Falcon and the Winter Soldier will reveal Patriot and the Captain America history of "Red, White, and Black". I also have to imagine the next Captain Marvel story will deal with Hulkling (who in the comic is a skrull/kree princling)? And the Fantastic Four will have to deal with the Skrulls in General in their first movie.
Lastly,
I share this sentiment.
I laughed at him shooting at the children.Beelzquill wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:47 am I don't really get why they made director Hayward such an asshole in this series. I mean, a villain who wants to get the vision activated for his own use sure, but a guy who takes shots at literal children in broad daylight in front of his men? Seriously, his IQ went to 0 real quick. I liked the Theseus ship discussion.
My Blog: http://rocketboy1313.blogspot.com/
My Twitter: https://twitter.com/Rocketboy1313
My Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/rocketboy1313
My Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/13rocketboy13
My Twitter: https://twitter.com/Rocketboy1313
My Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/rocketboy1313
My Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/13rocketboy13
-
- Captain
- Posts: 3739
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:22 pm
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
I just gope the fantastic four fight someone other than doctor Doom I like Doom but I rather they didn't try to out him in with an origin.
- BridgeConsoleMasher
- Overlord
- Posts: 11633
- Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:18 am
Re: WandaVision [SPOLIER DISCUTIONS]
I think I land on the glass is half full side of the fence here.
I still think the first half(?) of the show is beautifully structured with the emulated episodes. I liked how we start seeing what's going on outside of the town around the same time the shows start coming around to the 90's. The point where people that grew up watching TV are more overtly the subject of TV, along with reality TV coming about at that point too. The lines between reality and TV start to get crossed. The show is sprinkled wonderfully with satire.
And I don't have time to resent that they didn't start bringing Fox-Men even though I guessed it too. That being said I'm pretty sure I think it was a misfire either way. I'm not going to say I feel pranked, but I'm just going to leave it at that... I think the problem actually links more to the resolve of the season. I wasn't looking for a final showdown with either Vision or Wanda, and thought it was a bit odd that we got one for each character independently. I think the penultimate finale with Wanda's childhood home was rather strong and a faithful summation to every episode before it. Perhaps they filmed or developed much of this show before the pandemic turned into a semi-long term ordeal and decided to kick off phase4 with this instead of Falcon and Winter Soldier?
I still think the first half(?) of the show is beautifully structured with the emulated episodes. I liked how we start seeing what's going on outside of the town around the same time the shows start coming around to the 90's. The point where people that grew up watching TV are more overtly the subject of TV, along with reality TV coming about at that point too. The lines between reality and TV start to get crossed. The show is sprinkled wonderfully with satire.
And I don't have time to resent that they didn't start bringing Fox-Men even though I guessed it too. That being said I'm pretty sure I think it was a misfire either way. I'm not going to say I feel pranked, but I'm just going to leave it at that... I think the problem actually links more to the resolve of the season. I wasn't looking for a final showdown with either Vision or Wanda, and thought it was a bit odd that we got one for each character independently. I think the penultimate finale with Wanda's childhood home was rather strong and a faithful summation to every episode before it. Perhaps they filmed or developed much of this show before the pandemic turned into a semi-long term ordeal and decided to kick off phase4 with this instead of Falcon and Winter Soldier?
..What mirror universe?