Will Chuck mention the inconsistency with Moriarty?

[Madner Kami]

If that fake universe is factually indistinguishable from reality from your point of view, I doubt your assessement.

[Darth Wedgius]

It's hard to tell if Moriarty will be able to figure out they're in a simulation or not. Even in "Elementary, Dear Data," he does things that the crew doesn't know how he does. I'm almost certain that we're supposed to accept that he'll never find out, and that it's a happy ending for everyone.

I can understand not liking that Picard lied. It's arguable, seeing as how Moriarty did capture Pulaski and take control of the Enterprise -- I'd call that hostile actions. But still, Picard is supposed to be a paragon of virtue. I think that's why they went with the different ending.

[proporRocket]

Moriarty is a super genius, given enough time it seems like there would be a high probability that he would eventually figure out that his world is a simulation. It would just take one bug in the code (they travel past a star that doesn't give of heat, vanilla ice cream tastes like chocolate, people like Neelix) to give away the game. To a guy like Moriarty, discovering that you're in an inescapable prison seems like the cruelest of fates.

[FaxModem1]

If you want to headcanon it, Moriarty's box, if it was taken off the Enterprise and taken to some research center somewhere, is constantly getting patched while Moriarty and the Countess are sleeping, expanding the program, and research continues on in how to bring them to the real world. Dr. Zimmerman might have even used a bit of their code to make the EMH Mark I. Maybe Dr. Zimmerman even has them on a shelf somewhere?

[clearspira]

I wonder if Picard lied to Moriarty about the federation trying to help him. Here's what I'm thinking: so they could upload Moriarty and the countess into that box at the end of the episode to trick them, presumably the box is some type of computer, and it would keep the simulation running. Here's the thing why couldn't they put him in a box like that and put that box in a body like data's. Wire the inputs and out into the box and bam Moriarty can roam the "real world."

We are talking about Professor Moriarty. A man designed not only to defeat Sherlock Holmes - a man whose detective skills border on telepathy - but Data, who is one of the smartest men in the galaxy. He is also a very dangerous criminal. A charming, gentlemanly criminal who will invite you around for tea yes (at least in this incarnation) but a criminal none the less. And the Feds would want to give this man a real world body for what reason exactly? I am seeing a distinct lack of a cost/benefit return here.

And am the only one who sees the parallels between Moriarty and Khan? Both were shafted by captains that swiftly forgot about them, both are ambitious, both are arrogant, both are murderously dangerous given the chance, both are charismatic, both are cunning, and both have strong protective instincts towards a certain woman. What if the Countess were to somehow die like McGivers did? I could very much see him taking the Wrath of Khan route.

[Yukaphile]

I always felt as if Moriarty had indeed grown to be more than he was, and that Picard wasn't against helping him. The ending of the original script was never even filmed. Roddenberry killed it, and for reasons I can agree with. Picard just felt as if he was giving him a happy paradise world to live in until he "died" of old age. I mean, suppose a Matrix-like reality could be created for all of us? Where we were happy and doing what we loved and never knew? How many of us would refuse that? Especially victims of trauma or abuse of bad homes or rotten childhoods. It would be an escape like into fantasy. I think the problem I have here is that... there is no choice, thus there's no freedom in the matter. Yes, Picard was on a time crunch in a desperate situation. I don't blame him. But it's still disturbing to him nevertheless. Like learning all of reality is just Azathoth's dream that you were tricked into surviving in. The problem here is also... he can't be transmuted into normal matter in the real world. Geordi and Data speculated on it, but it might take years to do so. He'd need a mobile emitter. That would be too much of a dead giveaway that Picard lied to him. So no chance they could fool him like that. I guess my feeling is that Moriarty is a unique lifeform, and he deserves a chance to see that freak accident to its utmost conclusion. Besides, can't they just remove him from the simulation, and charge him with commandeering the Enterprise? Then have him serve time, and be released.

[clearspira]

I always felt as if Moriarty had indeed grown to be more than he was, and that Picard wasn't against helping him. The ending of the original script was never even filmed. Roddenberry killed it, and for reasons I can agree with. Picard just felt as if he was giving him a happy paradise world to live in until he "died" of old age. I mean, suppose a Matrix-like reality could be created for all of us? Where we were happy and doing what we loved and never knew? How many of us would refuse that? Especially victims of trauma or abuse of bad homes or rotten childhoods. It would be an escape like into fantasy. I think the problem I have here is that... there is no choice, thus there's no freedom in the matter. Yes, Picard was on a time crunch in a desperate situation. I don't blame him. But it's still disturbing to him nevertheless. Like learning all of reality is just Azathoth's dream that you were tricked into surviving in. The problem here is also... he can't be transmuted into normal matter in the real world. Geordi and Data speculated on it, but it might take years to do so. He'd need a mobile emitter. That would be too much of a dead giveaway that Picard lied to him. So no chance they could fool him like that. I guess my feeling is that Moriarty is a unique lifeform, and he deserves a chance to see that freak accident to its utmost conclusion. Besides, can't they just remove him from the simulation, and charge him with commandeering the Enterprise? Then have him serve time, and be released.

In fairness, the mobile emitter is tech that they couldn't have possibly foreseen at the time. Even when Voyager gets back home in 2378 it'll still be years before it can be mass-produced. It certainly cannot be replicated as the Doctor would have done that already. I would argue that life in the Matrix is far superior to a life confined to the wall-sized holo emitters that Starfleet currently use.

And as for charging him and putting him in prison, I refer back to my previous comment about Moriarty being a combination of Khan and Data. He is currently safely tucked up where he will do the least possible harm and that is the best place for him. Sorry, but needs of the many and all that.

[Yukaphile]

I was talking about Star Trek Online. There's a holographic rights group that wants him freed. I am dead serious about that.

Probably is.

True, but the urgency of the situation forced their hand. Without that star collision, Picard may have legitimately tried to help him, rather than trick him. IMO.

[Killerbee256]

I wonder if Picard lied to Moriarty about the federation trying to help him. Here's what I'm thinking: so they could upload Moriarty and the countess into that box at the end of the episode to trick them, presumably the box is some type of computer, and it would keep the simulation running. Here's the thing why couldn't they put him in a box like that and put that box in a body like data's. Wire the inputs and out into the box and bam Moriarty can roam the "real world."

We are talking about Professor Moriarty. A man designed not only to defeat Sherlock Holmes - a man whose detective skills border on telepathy - but Data, who is one of the smartest men in the galaxy. He is also a very dangerous criminal. A charming, gentlemanly criminal who will invite you around for tea yes (at least in this incarnation) but a criminal none the less. And the Feds would want to give this man a real world body for what reason exactly? I am seeing a distinct lack of a cost/benefit return here.

And am the only one who sees the parallels between Moriarty and Khan? Both were shafted by captains that swiftly forgot about them, both are ambitious, both are arrogant, both are murderously dangerous given the chance, both are charismatic, both are cunning, and both have strong protective instincts towards a certain woman. What if the Countess were to somehow die like McGivers did? I could very much see him taking the Wrath of Khan route.

After what he did in "Ship in a Bottle" yeah there is no way Star Fleet would allow him to be installed in a body of some sort, but before? Besides his origin as a fictional villain he hadn't done anything that bad. He took Pulaski hostage, but did nothing to hurt her. Judging him based on what Arthur Conan Doyle wrote, just feel like profiling in the extreme.

[armoredlancer]

I thought the topic was
inconsistency with MORALITY
I was going to start with "Hey everyone's morality is inconsistent