Wargriffin wrote:Rises either needed to be two movies... or needed to cut a character 'You know who'
or arguably merge the two.
Dark Knight Rises definitely felt like two movies sandwiched together. They needed to spend more time on Gotham under Bane's rule, Bane's/Talia's motivations, and Bruce's return to Gotham.
The First film should have ended with Gotham being cut off and Bane taking power.
The second film should have been about occupied Gotham.
And I'll agree with FakeGeekGirl that I'd like to see Chuck do more superhero film reviews. Especially Batman v Superman, which is a film that has so many good elements and so many bad elements that I think it would be fascinating to have disected.
FakeGeekGirl wrote:
I was severely depressed in high school, borderline suicidal. I was in my head all the time, living with my own self-loathing and hatred.
This movie got me out of my head. It wasn't happy, but it was interesting and it was something to think about other than, "I'm worthless, I'm stupid, I'm a whore (who's never even kissed a boy), I deserve the bullying I've received." Movies that serve as an escape aren't always lighthearted escapism.
I was made unreasonably happy by the hugging emoji. Thank you! I am doing much better now. But high school ... those were dark days for me. I imagine that's the case for many nerds, honestly.
Yeah, probably. Mine was a mixed bag. My dark times were more in middle school, which for good and bad served to harden me somewhat.
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
-TR
I was considering the idea behind splitting TDKR into two films, and it just occurred to me that MIGHT work. I mean, people negatively compare DKR to TDK and never even BRING UP Batman Begins. If you ignore BB, then that puts TDK the first movie of a trilogy with an eh-so-so prequel.
Remove the seven-year gap. It's not necessary to drag it out that long. I know it seemed thematically necessary for Harvey Dent's death to result in reducing crime, but they never really touch too much on this issue: Dent's martyrdom results in police OVERREACH. And the problem, as we already knew, is that there's corruption in the police force. Dent's death didn't SOLVE any of that, it just shifts the power from the mafia to the police, and maybe that's okay for the upper class but not the poor and underclass. Which is where Bane comes in.
The issue though is that it seems like Nolan didn't want to pursue that line of probability because having police is CLEARLY a much more suitable situation than Bane's vague anarchist state. But it seems like it'd be a better way to set up the desire for--and the problems of--a violent revolution.
So, idea: Follow Robin (Just call him Dick Grayson dangit) from POV of police recruit who sees this all happening and he tries to find Batman and bring him back, only this time fighting against police corruption. Could even have Barbra Gordon in it--I know that Gordon's children are way too young, make her second cousin or something. They solve the whole thing about Batman's identity, convince him to do something about it. "They already see you as their enemy, it's not like you can fall any farther in their eyes"
And interestingly, if you want a sideplot with regular Batman rogues' gallery that eventually leads up to Bane, there's a couple ways to go. Have someone pulling the police strings--Penguin's an upperclass twat, he's good for that. Deadshot could be fairly easy to integrate--police sniper gone rogue. And there's always a Catwoman subplot if you want that.
In any case, the investigation eventually culminates in Batman finding Bane, who says he ostensibly agrees with Batman: the police have taken too much power and are destroying the underclass, and he's there to correct the issue, and Batman should join him. Batman doesn't, of course, because Bane's methods are too extreme (and he likely sees a lot of what he himself has been doing in Bane's actions), so Bane breaks him, dumps him, takes over Gotham. Downer ending with a look toward coming back to get Bane.
Next movie, Dick and Barbra realize Batman is gone and so take up the cape in order to save Gotham, meanwhile Bruce is trying to escape the pit Bane left him in.
Building on rickgriffin's idea: could make it an ensemble piece and split the Robin character further; have three police recruits, Dick Greyson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake, plus Barbara. And have each embody a different trait of Batman's (iirc in the comics it's been stated that the Robins have each surpassed Batman in a different area, e.g. Dick is a better acrobat, Tim is a better detective, etc so why not run with that?), and use them to explore different aspects of Batman. Could possibly even have Jason, the most violent of them, 'fall' and join Bane (possibly taking up the Red Hood identity like the comics Jason did, albeit without the baggage that it had in the comics; or, as they'd probably not bother with the code name, have a leather jacket and red biker helmet be worn prominently).
Side note on Barbara being too old to be Gordon's daughter - I believe there was a time in the comics when they retconned her into being his niece that he'd adopted, so there is precident for her not being his daughter.
The problem with the 7 year time gap is... Bruce basically has a back in the saddle progress, loses to bane and then has yet another back in the saddle montage in the pit.
The Pit SHOULD BE THE PRIMARY, Bruce comes back stronger bit.
Get rid of the 7 year time skip, make it 7 months, Bruce is basically still high on his "victory" over the joker and with Gordon on the inside helping him... Bruce much to Alfred's char gain is letting the Victory fuel him while Gordon not only keeping up the lie about Harvey and is outright helping Bruce allude the authorities is cracking under the pressure.
... Honestly this is the most controversial idea... make Selina Talia... Selina's purpose is largely over the moment you realize she's in the movie to steal Bruce's prints/ lure him to Bane and then just kinda sticks around cause... she's in the movie and Bruce needs a warm pair of thighs to have at the end.
Essentially get rid of the "clean slate" nonsense, and make it Bruce despite everything is still in the running to take over the League of Shadows by Rhas edict, Selina/Talia shows up to warn him about Bane the only other person who can claim Rhas mantle, instead of having Alfred apparently Know EVERYTHING abotu the ****ing underworld 'Basically in this version Bane would be Rhas' biological child'
So in the end, Bruce hasn't run off into the wild blue yonder..., He has taken the next step into "Immortality" withe League under his and Talia's control... its basically Batman incorporate, and Robin would be the prospective first student.
"When you rule by fear, your greatest weakness is the one who's no longer afraid."
Hah, and that gives me an idea . . . near the end when Gordon realizes and confesses to Batman that the Dent plan was a failure, he says "I should have known it was foolish to place all our hopes in one man." Which would be an ACTUAL kind of closure to the Batman mythos--relying on One Man to be the hero is a mistake, whether it's for Dent, for Batman, or for Bane, and also wraps up Bruce accepting help from Robin(s) and Batgirl. And starting up Batman Inc would be Batman's way of restoring civility, in an attempt to start over where the police are concerned.
