President Neelix Spends 60% of his time fucking around

[Karha of Honor]

Well, he has to talk with Putin and their common "business partners" at some point, doesn't he?

It's not 1860, let him be influenced and let Congress, the voters and the Senate keep him in check.

I mean if the voters actually mattered he wouldn't be president at all.

The tools for overturning how elections happen are in the toolbox.

It would simply require getting the only party that has ever won without the popular vote to agree to change it.

Fuck that, based on what we saw the last few years. Democrats did not do jack to deserve that favor or the Left.

[Draco Dracul]

Well, he has to talk with Putin and their common "business partners" at some point, doesn't he?

It's not 1860, let him be influenced and let Congress, the voters and the Senate keep him in check.

I mean if the voters actually mattered he wouldn't be president at all.

The tools for overturning how elections happen are in the toolbox.

It would simply require getting the only party that has ever won without the popular vote to agree to change it.

Fuck that, based on what we saw the last few years. Democrats did not do jack to deserve that favor or the Left.

So the tools are there, but we aren't allowed to use them because one party disproportionately benefits from an anti-democratic system? Minority rule combined with extreme polarization and a party built around jamming the system totally doesn't sound like a recipe for a systemic collapse.

And an attitude that stops just short of saying, "you don't deserve democracy" will definitely help with that. Especially in the defense of a body that demonstrably failed to do the one thing it was meant to do and may have allowed an actual traitor to become president.

[Admiral X]

The Founding Fathers were very concerned with the idea of the "tyranny of the majority" and I more or less agree with them. As it is, the high population states already hold a lot of sway over the ones with lower population, and getting rid of the electoral college would simply make this even worse.

[Yukaphile]

So we should be held hostage by a minority? The majority should have final sway over what goes on. And yes, I think the electoral college is undemocratic.

[Madner Kami]

Neither the minority nor the majority should hold a sway over the other. A flock of sheep should not decide what wolves are allowed to do and a wolfpack should not decide what a flock of sheep has to do either. Both would be a dictatorship and either is unbearable.

Democracy is finding a solution for a problem that all the parties can live with, finding a consensus, even if that means that nobody gets exactly what they wanted.

[Yukaphile]

The electoral college is outdated, and I don't support it. The candidate with the most votes should hold office, period.

[Karha of Honor]

So we should be held hostage by a minority? The majority should have final sway over what goes on. And yes, I think the electoral college is undemocratic.

Well that would had worked put for gays and the entire rainbow coalition...

So the tools are there, but we aren't allowed to use them because one party disproportionately benefits from an anti-democratic system? Minority rule combined with extreme polarization and a party built around jamming the system totally doesn't sound like a recipe for a systemic collapse.

And an attitude that stops just short of saying, "you don't deserve democracy" will definitely help with that. Especially in the defense of a body that demonstrably failed to do the one thing it was meant to do and may have allowed an actual traitor to become president.

It worked incredibly well for an incredibly long time. Nobody deserves democracy. Checks and balances baby.

You mean the Democrats were not such dumbasses that they could have not lost the popular vote?

Mr. Pussy graber is just as responsive to the public as W and Obama was, at least...

On the traitor thing, he was elected by US citizens,dealt with a US media and his power base is located in the United States. Whatever Russia is pushing is popular with the a segment of US citizens.
Time to moderrnize, this is not the 1860's, information sprerads more than quick enough to make any agenda that is truly unpopular with the American public unworkable for any foreign actor.

So we should be held hostage by a minority? The majority should have final sway over what goes on. And yes, I think the electoral college is undemocratic.

If the Democrats don't like they could have pushed for more Federalism...

What's so awesome about the wast unwaswhed half of them don't know who the Vice President is public that you put so much faith into them?

[Draco Dracul]

So the tools are there, but we aren't allowed to use them because one party disproportionately benefits from an anti-democratic system? Minority rule combined with extreme polarization and a party built around jamming the system totally doesn't sound like a recipe for a systemic collapse.

And an attitude that stops just short of saying, "you don't deserve democracy" will definitely help with that. Especially in the defense of a body that demonstrably failed to do the one thing it was meant to do and may have allowed an actual traitor to become president.

It worked incredibly well for an incredibly long time. Nobody deserves democracy. Checks and balances baby.

You mean the Democrats were not such dumbasses that they could have not lost the popular vote?

Mr. Pussy graber is just as responsive to the public as W and Obama was, at least...

On the traitor thing, he was elected by US citizens,dealt with a US media and his power base is located in the United States. Whatever Russia is pushing is popular with the a segment of US citizens.
Time to moderrnize, this is not the 1860's, information sprerads more than quick enough to make any agenda that is truly unpopular with the American public unworkable for any foreign actor.

Rome worked well for an incredibly long time, that didn't stop it from collapsing. Right now we're in a situation where all gentleman's agreements that made Democracy Alpha version workable have been systematically destroyed by the republican party.

Pretty much, I mean they've only managed to lose the popular vote once in the last 30 years and that was against a still popular incumbent president.

I'm not sure what that means in this context as Trump has consistently pushed unpopular policy.

I'm not even talking about the general Russian disinformation campaign, I'm talking about his connection to Roger Stone who has been Arrested for his connection to the DNC hack which Russia has stated was a military action of the Russian government if it occurred.

[Admiral X]

So we should be held hostage by a minority? The majority should have final sway over what goes on. And yes, I think the electoral college is undemocratic.

I'm all about the checks and balances. People like you don't seem to understand that a pure democracy isn't exactly a utopia either, or even that the US isn't actually a democracy but a republic. Pure democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

The electoral college is outdated, and I don't support it. The candidate with the most votes should hold office, period.

We already have problems as it is with the "first past the post" system, which has left us with only two parties dominating this system.

[Yukaphile]

Two parties are better than one.