Wait until sfdebris gets to Stargate Universe.

[Beastro]

I was sad with how they handled Louis Ferreira's character. He was the only one I liked and did something of a decent job at being the "I never asked for this" CO. I still felt they shoulda made him harder, but that comes from liking his hardass with a heart of gold character on 1-800-Missing.

[McAvoy]

I was sad with how they handled Louis Ferreira's character. He was the only one I liked and did something of a decent job at being the "I never asked for this" CO. I still felt they shoulda made him harder, but that comes from liking his hardass with a heart of gold character on 1-800-Missing.

Actually I did like that aspect of the show. They were presented as not best of the best like let's say Carter or McKay was in their own fields. They were probably better than most of the military due to being in the Stargate Command. But they were not the type of characters that can 'turn a rock into a replicator' type of person.

Eli was the only one that seemed have that special quality. Even BSG still had the exceptional characters like Apollo, Starbuck, or Adam for example.

It would be like me being a 302 mechanic 'Dude I just fixed 302 engines, I have no idea what to do on this ship.'

[Captain Crimson]

They also brought up abortion. Personally, I could see both camps, pro-life and pro-choice, so long as it's not anti-choice like the GOP hard-liners, but is that REALLY something we need in our SF? It contributed to the overall bleak tone.

I just really feel that has NO PLACE in SG. That would be another reason I call it woke. Or, let's not forget that even amidst the icky sexualization of SGU, there was crassness like the proto-wokies even back then getting the "scientist uses Wray's body to have sex with Dr. Rush" canned, but had no issues with the other times there was questionable and dubious consent, if not outright rape. No, we just gotta throw a fuss because it's a lesbian being raped rather than everyone else.

I'm not a prude. But SGU was cynical to the Nth degree in terms of what grabs ratings.

How else would I define it as woke? Well, REALLY! Look at reviews back then. Media outlets just glowed with praise for it while it shed fans in droves. Seems very much like the disconnect between media and the consumer fanbase these days. And as I'd said, spin-doctor. They blame scheduling issues rather than the shift in tone, atmosphere, and so forth...

The religious tones also feel totally at odds to the franchise built on toppling false gods to bring secular enlightenment to the masses. Like, really. Holding a church service as you plunge into a star? CRINGE.

I'm tapping out. Later.

[TGLS]

They also brought up abortion. Personally, I could see both camps, pro-life and pro-choice, so long as it's not anti-choice like the GOP hard-liners, but is that REALLY something we need in our SF? It contributed to the overall bleak tone.

Well given the many examples of SF used to address social issues in society, the answer is clearly yes.

The problem with the show isn't that it addressed abortion. The problem with the show is that the show the writers wanted to write (BSG by way of Stargate) and the show the audience was expecting were not in sync, and the writers were unable to sell their vision to the audience.

[Captain Crimson]

They also brought up abortion. Personally, I could see both camps, pro-life and pro-choice, so long as it's not anti-choice like the GOP hard-liners, but is that REALLY something we need in our SF? It contributed to the overall bleak tone.

Well given the many examples of SF used to address social issues in society, the answer is clearly yes.

The problem with the show isn't that it addressed abortion. The problem with the show is that the show the writers wanted to write (BSG by way of Stargate) and the show the audience was expecting were not in sync, and the writers were unable to sell their vision to the audience.

SG was never ST or SW. It never went to pains to beat you over the head with woke or its activist past - "aren't we so progressive?" And then pat themselves on the back over that.

No, that doesn't fly. I say abortion and military science-fiction go as well together as bacon and arsenic.

[TGLS]

No, that doesn't fly. I say abortion and military science-fiction go as well together as bacon and arsenic.

1) I say a genre that lumps The Forever War in with a small group of people stuck on an alien spaceship billions of lightyears away is at best wastebin taxonomy.
2) The problem with the show is conceptual, not with an abortion plotline. They wanted a show that was a follow up to the previous two series, isolating the main characters far away from the previous two shows (and under cut it with the communication stones), and a lot more serious. With the tone of the previous series being upbeat and a bit goofy, it would already be a challenge portraying the series as a sequel. Moving the action away from the other two series was also a challenge. Two challenges was clearly too much, and the show was killed after two seasons.

[Captain Crimson]

No, that doesn't fly. I say abortion and military science-fiction go as well together as bacon and arsenic.

1) I say a genre that lumps The Forever War in with a small group of people stuck on an alien spaceship billions of lightyears away is at best wastebin taxonomy.
2) The problem with the show is conceptual, not with an abortion plotline. They wanted a show that was a follow up to the previous two series, isolating the main characters far away from the previous two shows (and under cut it with the communication stones), and a lot more serious. With the tone of the previous series being upbeat and a bit goofy, it would already be a challenge portraying the series as a sequel. Moving the action away from the other two series was also a challenge. Two challenges was clearly too much, and the show was killed after two seasons.

Both valid points, though I reiterate that another way it was proto-woke (perhaps a better term) would be the proto-SJWs getting the "a scientist uses Wray's body to have sex with Dr. Rush" idea killed, and yet they still kept the other rape stuff. It's the double standard. I really should have clarified that with Camille Wray, as I think the way she first brought up her sexuality is subtle, it's more the meta stuff I take issue with.

And this topic really depresses me, but I guess that's to be expected with SGU. So I'll just drop it and let another user determine the next subject surrounding SGU.

[thisithis]

OK they added a lesbian to the show. So now instead of a show of presumably straight people, now they got a gay character. So what? Did they make a big deal out of it or did they make it as natural as they could? Did they make it look as normal as any straight character relationship?

Heaven forbid a gay character can be shown on TV without someone saying 'look they are going woke'.

I guess they are better as background characters.

The Reality was with the lesbian character was at least with her lover fine to me. So, yeah they treated the relationship that's just normal and nothing else. The problem was she was kind of dumb. For starters, she listened to Dr. Nicholas Rush the one scientist that has never done anything shady, Wait... Rush had been doing shady BS and lying to everyone from the start of the show. I can see why she trusted him. So, when he wanted to work on a Machine I'm Destiny the spaceship that could kill him, and off-limits to him for good reasons, he decided to make a distraction by fooling the lesbian character into talking the rest of the scientist into mutiny. You would have to be pretty stupid to think a small handful of scientists to go hand-in-hand against well-trained Marines all trapped in a spaceship. But she did it, and they got their asses handed to them. This was one of the reasons why I liked that Computer hacking kid on the show, he was the smart one, he ran straight to the Marines saying I'm no your side. As for the politician's daughter character, bricks were smarter than her in both seasons.

[McAvoy]

Oh she was annoying and I did forget about that. But that had nothing to do with her sexuality.

Chloe, I think is that useless politician daughter. Yeah completely useless. Not even remotely entertaining except she is cute.

[Captain Crimson]

Here is an observation. I suspect SGU S1 could have fared loads better if, say, they had spaced out the conflicts. Have the group start out a bit... kinder, and then show what weeks and months of isolation can do to you. You know, if we have to go the BSG and VOY route. And those Ancient communication devices? I think they would have worked far better if they had found them months later, so that contact with Earth is not something they have set up right away. Like how SGA handled its themes that way at the end of their S1.

Man, I wonder what Mr. Chuck is gonna think of this, given how harsh he's railed on VOY... that promises to be quite the treat.