What makes a super hero "super?"

[Dînadan]

I don't think the Punisher is a superhero so much as he's an anti-'hero' that inhabits a world contains superheroes. I think he gets filled under the superhero category because he's a vigilante in a superhero world and as such there's not really a better category to put him in.

[The Romulan Republic]

I've never been into comic books. As a scifi fan that almost seems incongruous, I know. But with the glut of super hero movies and television shows out now, all based on comic books, I'm beginning to wonder about the root of that preference. If it's special abilities that makes a super hero "super" then why doesn't Mr. Spock or Luke Skywalker qualify as a super hero? If having really advanced equipment, like Batman, does it then why not Jim Kirk or Han Solo? Batman may have the Batmobile but I'd take a starship over an automobile any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Doctor Who has 'em all beat by having both the abilities and technology of a vastly more advanced species so is he a super hero?

I'm going to address this a bit more specifically, because I had a very similar reaction to the genre- it wasn't one I followed closely, but as I became more involved in online SF forums, and The Dark Knight hit theatres (which got me more into the history of Batman), I became a fan of the genre (or rather, the films and tv adaptations- I'm still not a big comics reader, and I don't think the sprawling mess of discontinuity that is Marvel and DC is very welcoming to new or casual readers). But, for a long time, I had a hard time understanding what it was that I liked about the genre, what made it interesting and unique. I mean, what does define a superhero, other than originating in comic books, wearing campy outfits (overt symbolism generally isn't my cup of tea), and having contrived origin stories?

In the end, I figured out, more or less, that for me it is the political, social, and legal questions raised by having "super human" beings who exist alongside ordinary people, and who are either used by the state to enforce the law, or who take the law into their own hands. At the heart of every superhero story, or nearly every one, is the question of when we are justified in taking the law into our own hands, and where the line lies between a libertarian ideal (of the heroic individual who stands up for him/herself and others where a corrupt or ineffective state fails) and an authoritarian/fascist ideal (of powerful/"superior" individuals imposing their will upon others). Along with the question of what defines a "superior" being, and what rights and responsibilities that position entails.*

Which I guess just goes to show that I am, first and foremost, a politics nerd.

Others may find other things to interest them in the genre, of course. On one level, its pure escapism/wish fulfilment, of course (though you can find similar things in other genres)- the fantasy of a hero swooping in to save us when things are darkest, cutting through the murky uncertainties of the world. Or of being able to be the ordinary person who becomes such a hero.

Or, to put a darker spin on it, being the "anti-hero" who can exact brutal vengeance on the "bad guys".

I don't think its a coincidence that the genre first emerged in force during the Great Depression, or that its modern resurgence closely parallels the start of the War on Terror, and then the 2008 Recession.

Superheros, or at least classic superheroes, only really work as a concept when the system isn't working.

*These questions, while ones of global significance, particularly resonate in the American political culture, with its strong romanticization of individualism; tradition of glorifying outlaws, rebels, and vigilantes; and distrust of government authority. I also don't think it is a coincidence that the genre largely originated in America, or that a number of its most prominent characters are in part archetypes representing America or American ideals, even beyond the usual American dominance of popular culture. I am not an expert in American cultural studies or anything, but I dare say that the superhero genre is one of the most distinctly American genres in existence, even if it has grown beyond those origins (and, like much of American culture, arguably has roots in Britain).

Edit: Granted, I'm sure I'm not the first person to say most of these things. You can probably find any number of books analyzing the super hero genre and the more notable characters in the genre, if you wish to do so.

[Formless One]

I mean, what does define a superhero, other than originating in comic books, wearing campy outfits (overt symbolism generally isn't my cup of tea), and having contrived origin stories?

Really, all other things being equal, I would be tempted to say that the most important defining trait of the superhero genre really is just the camp and iconography. I mean, its not entirely a superficial thing because, as many people have pointed out over the years, Superheroes are a very individualistic notion. In almost every superhero story you can find out there, whether it originated in comics or not, no two superhumans seem to have the same power set or theme, and most superheroes strive to have a unique public identity. Even outside of their universe, any similar character that might come later is immediately tagged as a ripoff or homage even if that wasn't the intent. There are rare exceptions like the Green Lantern Corp, sure, but even then they do as much as they can to at least differentiate the outfits of the different members of the corp even though it isn't realistically necessary. Batman's family of sidekicks are all non-powered, but each one has a unique moniker (Robin, Batgirl, Black Bat, Nightwing, etc.) which is essentially the same gimmick as professional wrestlers in WWE and the like. Which is not surprising given that Superman's outfit was directly inspired by the strongman outfit of 30's era circus performers.

This difference between Superheroes and other genres becomes immediately noticeable when you compare it to related but different genres such as Shonen fighting anime and manga genre. Superheroes are always public figures, but in contrast Shonen manga characters tend to either strive for privacy or don't bother keeping their identity secret. Unless, of course, the character is actually meant to be a superhero like One Punch Man. So even though the genre of Shonen fighting anime is directly related to superheroes and has a similar dynamic, this one simple change accounts for why few people see it as the same. The characters are heroes, but not public heroes, with no need for icons and "stage" names. A similar observation could be made about fighting game characters (setting aside the obvious simplicity of fighting game storytelling); even though their character rosters often have people with superhuman fighting ability (up to and including actual supernatural powers), they are usually treated as "normal" people from various walks of life who all just happen to know martial arts. They aren't treated as public figures, don't have "stage" names either, and lack iconography no matter how much effort is put into giving them a unique look and identity. Unless, of course, the game is Injustice or Marvel vs Capcom and features actual comic book superheroes licensed from DC or Marvel Comics.

[MadAmosMalone]

Edit: Granted, I'm sure I'm not the first person to say most of these things. You can probably find any number of books analyzing the super hero genre and the more notable characters in the genre, if you wish to do so.

That may be true but, for me, it's good to read your (and others') opinions on the subject because of the informal nature of the dialog. I'm certain y'all are all much more knowledgeable on the subject than I am so this is a great opportunity for me to learn. For example, I never did put two and two together about the origins of superheroes being rooted in economic downturns. This despite the fact I've always said "art doesn't exist in a vacuum" and being very much aware of how Star Wars was exactly the kind of escapist fantasy America needed at exactly the right time it needed it. So at least some science fiction has that in common with comics. Similarly, without having started this thread for a conversation about superheroes, I would have never learned of the distinction between superheroes and anime heroes.

As for being a politics nerd, that's part of why I like science fiction in general. The best of the genre usually does one of a couple of things, take a potential development in science and explore the social and political ramifications of that development or makes an allegory of current or historical political situations and ports them to a fictional arena to play out.

[MithrandirOlorin]

As I alluded to before. I think it might be interesting to discus how Ironically Batman might resemble the intended meaning of Ubermensch more then Superman does.

[TGLS]

As I alluded to before. I think it might be interesting to discus how Ironically Batman might resemble the intended meaning of Ubermensch more then Superman does.

If you want to discuss irony and Superman, you should be talking about how Lex Luthor (Superman's chief enemy), is more of and Ubermensch than Superman ever was. On the other hand, if you translate Ubermensch as Overman, then there is no irony in either place.

[MithrandirOlorin]

Lex and Batman are basically the same in that regard, but I mention batman here since this is about Superhero who aren't officially considered Super Powered.

I rather like this YouTube video. But it annoys on 2 counts, the wrongly thinking Man is a gender specific word. And the Man of Steel bashing it ended on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIKYRZc9A1M

[MadAmosMalone]

Fascinating video and thanks for sharing. I enjoyed watching it. I think this is the very reason I never really liked the idea of Superman. He's completely invulnerable and ridiculously overpowered, a little difficult to relate to. There's no way to harm him other than through the macguffin of kryptonite or by hurting others he loves.

[yamiangie]

More great responses, guys. I'm particularly intrigued by the world that has everyone with some "super" talent. Wasn't there a novel that featured this? For some reason I'm remembering "Xanth?" I'll look that up and get back to y'all.

Romulan Republic mentioned sidekicks. I thought immediately of Green Hornet. His superpower is Kato. I never watched the new(ish) movie all the way through but it seems they played up that aspect of Green Hornet's relationship with his sidekick. Seems like I read somewhere that Green Hornet was actually a descendant of the Lone Ranger. (Another Google search and I'll get back with ya on that one too.) Would the Lone Ranger fall into the category of super-hero? He does have a secret identity but it seems to be his job, or rather only purpose.

What makes The Punisher a superhero? Is it that superhuman dedication mentioned earlier? Would that also apply to the Lone Ranger or Green Hornet? Is the Punisher's secret identity more than his purpose?

Oh man Piers Anthony's Xanth world, I was just thinking about that after reading about My Hero Academia.

Kaito started being all sorts of kick ass once they cast Bruce Lee in the tv show, he's mostly there to drive the car in the original radio show. Brit Reid is the Grand Nephew of the Long Ranger, so the Hornet's dad is that kid Danny if you've ever seen the recent movie. They were made by the same radio company.

Now back to hero or superhero status to the Ranger or Hornet? The time they were created you can lump them with pulp heroes or comic book super heroes. Pulp heroes seem to be a little more morally ambiguous, I read wiki's mostly but it seems there's overlap with origin stories between comic book super heroes and the pulp adventurers. "People think I'm dead so I'll just put on a mask and fight crime" seems to be par for the course. Also the little fact that the Green Hornet's thing is being a crime boss, everyone thinks he's the worst criminal in the city.
Sometimes I think the "super" part denotes how flashy the hero's outfit. Powered heroes seem to get their powers and go hey I should fight crime. Non powered heroes tend to have witnessed or been the victim of violence or injustice which motivates them to do something about it.

[MadAmosMalone]

So it was Xanth. I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers.

Yet another connection I never made, about the difference between powered heroes and unpowered ones. I saw the Lone Ranger origin episode on the Heroes and Icons channel a few weeks ago. I was already somewhat familiar with it but never knew it was filmed.