Joe Arpaio pardon

[Steve]

Arkle, this is beyond the pale and completely unacceptable.

So is saying that anti-fascists are "just as bad" as actual Nazis, yet I don't see the people on this forum who do that get these kinds of warnings. I'm not on every single topic of the News section though, so if you can show me examples of that happening that I missed I will GLADLY take this statement back.

Those two things are not the same. Hell, it's an admission that Nazis are bad, it's just asserting a claim that the antifa are driven by another totalitarian ideology. It's not the same thing as declaring your desire for the deaths of 62 million people.

[Arkle]

Hell, it's an admission that Nazis are bad, it's just asserting a claim that the antifa are driven by another totalitarian ideology.

An inately stupid claim that no rational or moral human being would ever make. It's as fucking ridiculous as calling Black Lives Matter a hate group or comparing LGBTQ rights groups to NAMBLA.

It's not the same thing as declaring your desire for the deaths of 62 million people.

Agreed. But at least I don't vote for people who associate with groups with the will and weaponry to at least try to make it happen. Trump supporters did.

[Steve]

Hell, it's an admission that Nazis are bad, it's just asserting a claim that the antifa are driven by another totalitarian ideology.

An inately stupid claim that no rational or moral human being would ever make. It's as fucking ridiculous as calling Black Lives Matter a hate group or comparing LGBTQ rights groups to NAMBLA.

Being stupid isn't the same thing as openly declaring your desire for the deaths of millions of people!

Are you being serious about this? I mean, I was hoping you were just so pissed off you weren't thinking the matter through.

[Arkle]

Hell, it's an admission that Nazis are bad, it's just asserting a claim that the antifa are driven by another totalitarian ideology.

An inately stupid claim that no rational or moral human being would ever make. It's as fucking ridiculous as calling Black Lives Matter a hate group or comparing LGBTQ rights groups to NAMBLA.

Being stupid isn't the same thing as openly declaring your desire for the deaths of millions of people!

Are you being serious about this? I mean, I was hoping you were just so pissed off you weren't thinking the matter through.

Your argument would carry some weight, if it weren't for the fact that what I wished for is impossible by any objective scientific measure. No one who voted for Spraytan Hitler is going to die because of my post. If they die at all in the next three years it'll be for one of the hundreds of reasons human beings of all walks of life die every day (accident, old age, mass shooting caused by a domestic abuser, etc.). I will have had nothing to do with it.

[Steve]

Your argument would carry some weight, if it weren't for the fact that what I wished for is impossible by any objective scientific measure. No one who voted for Spraytan Hitler is going to die because of my post. If they die at all in the next three years it'll be for one of the hundreds of reasons human beings of all walks of life die every day (accident, old age, mass shooting caused by a domestic abuser, etc.). I will have had nothing to do with it.

Obviously you can't cause it. But the fact that you'd state you wished such a thing... I mean, I get dark thoughts. I've had 'em too, we've all had them, but usually people don't broadcast them for the world to see and hear (ironically some of those who do are the very Nazis who are causing this discussion). And when I challenge you, you justify it as "well, you don't punish people who claim this group I like are not better than this group I don't like, and that's no different from what I said". Except, of course, it is different. Or did someone openly wish that every member of antifa get genital cancer? I haven't seen it, but if it's happened I'll gladly tell them off too, for the same reasons I'm telling you to go calm down. Such speech doesn't fix anything. It doesn't provide information, it doesn't raise a valid point, it does nothing of any constructive use, it's nothing but blind rage at people you collectively blame for what's wrong. And it's completely contrary to the spirit Chuck has asked us all to show in these discussions.

[Robovski]

Sure doesn't take much to get your knickers in a twist Arkle. As Steve said, calm down. Get used to the frustration of things not going your way, there's going to be a lot of it in this life.

Arpaio is out of office, I don't vote for him (I'm in Tucson) but I supported his going to jail for his contempt of court. But as I said he was convicted of none of the charges brought against him (even with being denied a jury trial) and keeping someone in jail for just contempt when the case is long over strikes me as wrong. And just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I think they should be treated differently than other people under the law. Trump has his pardon power, he used it but it's not like he pardoned Charlie Manson. It probably swings well with some Republicans in Arizona and elsewhere, maybe not with others, Joe wasn't beloved throughout the state. Arizona politics are a mixed bag of Elderly retirees and winterbirds (who don't want change and have ''conservative attitudes'' generally), college students, a lot of poor people (including a lot of Natives and immigrants) and about 5 million people in Phoenix. Tucson is very blue in part as it really is a University town, but it's in an island of Red. Joe isn't popular here generally but it depends on who you talk to.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Robovski, based on everything I've seen and heard from him, I'm honestly worried that 45 MIGHT JUST pardon a serial killer.

Arpaio is a monster. Look at the list of things he's said and done, without remorse. Look at the lives he's ruined. He was jailed for contempt of court in the same way that a big-time mobster gets jailed for tax evasion. I'm sure a lot more charges would have stuck if he didn't tend to threaten the well-being and families of judges who rule against him.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Hell, it's an admission that Nazis are bad, it's just asserting a claim that the antifa are driven by another totalitarian ideology.

An inately stupid claim that no rational or moral human being would ever make. It's as fucking ridiculous as calling Black Lives Matter a hate group or comparing LGBTQ rights groups to NAMBLA.

Being stupid isn't the same thing as openly declaring your desire for the deaths of millions of people!

Are you being serious about this? I mean, I was hoping you were just so pissed off you weren't thinking the matter through.

Your argument would carry some weight, if it weren't for the fact that what I wished for is impossible by any objective scientific measure. No one who voted for Spraytan Hitler is going to die because of my post. If they die at all in the next three years it'll be for one of the hundreds of reasons human beings of all walks of life die every day (accident, old age, mass shooting caused by a domestic abuser, etc.). I will have had nothing to do with it.

Arkle, I have to agree with Steve on this one. You might need to step away from the subforum for a bit, if only for the sake of your mental health and blood pressure. =s

[Arkle]

Arkle, I have to agree with Steve on this one. You might need to step away from the subforum for a bit, if only for the sake of your mental health and blood pressure. =s

Maybe. But you wanna know what the worst part is? This is probably not the worst thing Apricot Asshole has done or will do now that he's in office. And we haven't even had a full calendar year of him yet. If you have the money, I suggest investing in companies that make antacids and blood presure medication.

[Robovski]

Robovski, based on everything I've seen and heard from him, I'm honestly worried that 45 MIGHT JUST pardon a serial killer.

Arpaio is a monster. Look at the list of things he's said and done, without remorse. Look at the lives he's ruined. He was jailed for contempt of court in the same way that a big-time mobster gets jailed for tax evasion. I'm sure a lot more charges would have stuck if he didn't tend to threaten the well-being and families of judges who rule against him.

Al Capone. I grew up in Chicago, I'm familiar. Thing was, he was guilty of tax evasion. If you think Capone and the mob were hated people, think again. Now threatening a judge and their family is a big deal; we have evidence to meet the allegations? A trial, conviction? Because this is the thing about the USA, you are innocent until you are convicted of a crime. While that seems to have dissipated in the public consciousness, it is still innocent of a crime until proven guilty, preferably by a jury of one's own peers, another right we've been eroding. He can be human garbage but he's still innocent unless proven in a court of law.

Now on the related subject of the border, here 60 miles from Mexico is maybe a little different from where you are so let me lay it out; Mexico has no control over it's side, it is effectively a kleptocracy now and many people live in inhumane conditions. We should be treating the illegals as refugees not as migrants. It's a fine distinction, but it makes a huge difference. Migrants are just here for economic reasons, they want what we have. That isn't true for most Mexicans who come here; sure they want a better life but that's because they are refugees from a failed state that cannot provide security and opportunity for it's people. There is no reason why Mexico has to be that way, it has lots of natural resources, is a decently large country, has manufacturing and tourism. It has a large, close boarder with the US and unfettered economic access to the US and Canada for imports and exports. But the criminals have it all sewn up, and when people try to do something about it they end up dead. They cannot organize an effective resistance and so anyone who wants to do better than a shelter made of trash comes here. If they were Haitians on a raft they'd be refugees, but since they can conceivable walk from ''next door'' it's different somehow. Maybe it isn't expedient politically to treat Mexico as the failed state it is. I don't know. But this is what people tell me here. My cousin's wife (whose parents are from Mexico), who helps counsel immigration cases for a charity feels this way, as does my half Mexican girlfriend and my Mexican-American neighbors.

I used to feel we needed a vastly more open work visa program for Mexico, and I still kind of do (it couldn't hurt, and you get documented tax payers instead of illegals), but now I lean more towards just handling this like the refugee crisis it actually is.