SW The Old Republic: Sith Inquisitor

[CharlesPhipps]

I dunno, Lucas, and now Disney, have gone to great lengths to present the Jedi as...pretty colossal, out of touch douchebags. xD

Not really. Out of touch? Yes. But ROTS is about their tragic death.

Good men brought low by arrogance.

[Independent George]

Here's the question I've had since KOTOR 1:

Is the dark side an external force that imposes its will upon the Sith? Or is it a moral choice made by people who choose the dark side? If it's the latter, why do so many Jedi go full Evil Overlord the second they stray the slightest bit from the Jedi path?

There's is absolutely nothing in the Sith code that says you have to be an omnicidal maniac - or that embracing your emotions should lead you to abandon your empathy. In fact, the latter should probably lead to the opposite. So why then should feeling strong emotions inevitably lead to falling to the dark side? The way it plays out seems more consistent with the dark side being an external entity that either corrupts or breaks people to its will.

It'd be one thing if it followed the French Revolution model, where a desire to promote equality gradually leads to murdering everyone in the way of progress. Except... that actually seems more in line with being an extreme interpretation of Jedi philosophy, where you reject all emotion in favor purity of thought. At that point, it is merely practical to prune society of all the dangerous elements that threaten your utopia of justice and peace.

[CharlesPhipps]

Here's the question I've had since KOTOR 1:

Is the dark side an external force that imposes its will upon the Sith? Or is it a moral choice made by people who choose the dark side? If it's the latter, why do so many Jedi go full Evil Overlord the second they stray the slightest bit from the Jedi path?

I get the impression that Lucas wanted it made clear Anakin wasn't corrupted by magic but simply bad choices. I also think that in Star Wars, it IS a force of dark magic but because the Force is everything that means it's "anger actually IS evil magic rather than just emotions." It's the higher level of the universe behind thoughts and feelings.

As for why so many Jedi go Evil Overlord, I think it's the case of suppressing their feelings and devoting themselves to others for so long that they break bad bigger than anyone else. If you're going to be a bad guy, why not be a Big Bad Guy?

Revenge of the Sith's novelization showed Count Dooku planned to make a New Jedi Order with a human-centric bias as well as a fascist New Order to rule everything. Darth Vader, we know, believed the galaxy could be brought to heel. It's only Palpatine who only is in it for himself.

There's is absolutely nothing in the Sith code that says you have to be an omnicidal maniac - or that embracing your emotions should lead you to abandon your empathy. In fact, the latter should probably lead to the opposite. So why then should feeling strong emotions inevitably lead to falling to the dark side? The way it plays out seems more consistent with the dark side being an external entity that either corrupts or breaks people to its will.

Well the Jedi obviously feel emotions and Anakin gives the 5th grade version of the Catholic Catechism. Jedi are supposed to feel compassion, friendship, mercy, and love. It's just they're not supposed to feel bad emotions and either suppress them or resolve them. They're also supposed to love everyone and not just one person.

Remember, the Jedi are WRONG in that Luke's love for his father saves the universe.

It'd be one thing if it followed the French Revolution model, where a desire to promote equality gradually leads to murdering everyone in the way of progress. Except... that actually seems more in line with being an extreme interpretation of Jedi philosophy, where you reject all emotion in favor purity of thought. At that point, it is merely practical to prune society of all the dangerous elements that threaten your utopia of justice and peace.

Babylon Five seems to be something of a model in the Sith believe the universe is a Dog-Eat-Dog universe and encourage you to embrace selfishness, anger, hate, and rage to drive out all things but self-interest. While the Jedi embrace selflessness to an arguable fault. However, I think the Prequel Jedi aren't meant to be IDEAL Jedi.

They're a bit on the decayed ossified side but as we see with Qui Gon, Obi-Wan, and others, they're still mostly good people. They're just a bit stuffy.

Versus, you know, Satanically evil Sith.

[TrueMetis]

I actually felt that overall the SWTOR era Jedi where pretty well balanced and in tune with how thing really are. They were what Jedi were supposed to be, warrior monks. As opposed the just Monks of the Revan era which were willing to watch the Republic burn and led directly to the rise of Darth Revan and Malek, or the prequel Jedi who aren't quite as monkish as the Revan era Jedi but clearly have no real clue of what being a knight actually entails, or the pure fighters that the "Jedi Lords" that existed in some of the old EU.

Like I remember dealing with a couple of Padawan's that were hiding their relationship on Tython, and then latter we find out there are a bunch of Jedi in this era that have had relationship, children, and even got married (Including the freaking Grandmaster of the order). And then I look back at that couple and realize, if the Jedi council would have forbidden their relationship, it's cause their kind of immature little shits as shown by their decision to hide their relationship.

[chaos42]

plus its not like everything the sith think is bad, just the killing and crushing everyone in their path and slavery -which makes no sense. Here is the thing both sides have good aspects that would be better if they combined those aspects. as chuck and others have said why do these people think these things, some sith are evil but not all of them like darth mar. the real issue is that the sith and jedi both need to reform themselves and both are stuck in their ways unable to change

[CharlesPhipps]

plus its not like everything the sith think is bad, just the killing and crushing everyone in their path and slavery -which makes no sense. Here is the thing both sides have good aspects that would be better if they combined those aspects. as chuck and others have said why do these people think these things, some sith are evil but not all of them like darth mar. the real issue is that the sith and jedi both need to reform themselves and both are stuck in their ways unable to change

In Legends, the Jedaii used to follow a middle path but changed when one of their groups became purely evil due to a focus on the Dark Side.

[chaos42]

so its an over compensation like what happens when something stupid happens. People see something like video games that are violent in the home of a person who shoots some place and assume with out any evidence that the one element that set this person off into that state is a game, not upbringing, social interactions or abuse in many cases these people are treated poorly by the other people around them.

Its good that they made a reason but the issue i have is that its something that has been over simplified, for example in return of the jedi, obiwan told look to bury his feeling because he was going to confront the emperor and vader. I actually have to wonder are emotions really bad to the jedi in anything but episode 1-3, dark emotions like anger & fear are mentions but that isn't every emotion. Im kinda wondering if this isn't a case of we are seeing lucas's misunderstanding of his own work in order to make what he wanted.

[CharlesPhipps]

A lot of the Jedi's stuff is perfectly practical.

Thinking before you act and doing actions because they are for the greater good than because they make you feel better is all good life advice. It's a perfectly functional religion and works well with Christianity, Daoism, and Buddhism.

However, yes, you can take it too far and become afraid of emotions.

Which, of course, is of the Dark Side.

Ironic.

Mind you, you can understand why the Jedi overdid it given how much damage a Dark Jedi can do.

[chaos42]

granted but that just make the problem worse when one of them does snap, like in kotor

Plus you don't need to have the force to kill a lot of people.

Also this might seem slightly crazy but i miss having a character like HK47 around as he usually helped lighten the mood with his psychopathic sarcasm.

He should pick up hk-51 at least then we can see what kind of morality choices he programs it to follow. I just wounder which target he would choose

[SuccubusYuri]

Also this might seem slightly crazy but i miss having a character like HK47 around as he usually helped lighten the mood with his psychopathic sarcasm.

He should pick up hk-51 at least then we can see what kind of morality choices he programs it to follow. I just wounder which target he would choose

That's not half as crazy as the person who commissions Chuck to do KOTFE just to see HK-55 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)