This is for topical issues effecting our fair world... you can quit snickering anytime. Note: It is the desire of the leadership of SFDebris Conglomerate that all posters maintain a civil and polite bearing in this forum, regardless of how you feel about any particular issue. Violators will be turned over to Captain Janeway for experimentation.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:06 am
I think if he could avoid facing charges in New York, he would. I think it's pretty much a given once he leaves office, he's gonna get charged by New York for illegal business dealings. The White House protects him because a sitting president cannot be indicted. Also, I tie this back to the GOP accusing Obama of that very thing. I think it's based on a psychological condition called "projection." They're accusing the other side of acting in a way they are secretly thinking about.
"I think" - that's fine, but keep in mind that it's an "I think" not an "I know." It's not evidence for anything.
And then there's "They're accusing the other side of acting in a way they are secretly thinking about." You're trying to read someone's mind and assuming you know what they are really thinking, and then proceeding from the assumption rather than what you really know.
Because projection is a real psychological disorder.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 9:06 pm
Also, I never said anything about removing or excluding Muslims from the UK. I said that immigration of Muslims should be controlled so they assimilate into the dominant culture, rather than letting the floodgates go wide open for them to flee their own countries into the UK. Maybe if you'd read what I wrote instead of what you wanted me to have written, you'd have understood that.
No, I'm saying you're making a distinction without a difference. currently a bit less than 3 million muslims live in the UK, to a total population of around 66 million. there were about 30,000 applications for asylum in 2018. Even if 100% were Muslim, increasing the population by 1% a year as some sort of existential threat is... a take. Even if you doubled or tripled or quadrupled that number and all Muslims voted as a single voting block and strategically settled to maximize their voting power, it would take a generation to accomplish. Lotta integrating happens in a generation.
Honestly being afraid of that, the logical leaps required to assume that is a likely outcome, are pretty outlandish to me. You can see where I might suspect the "controlled immigration" target of someone who believed all that would actually be zero.
Does the UK still have gender-separated schools? Sure. And that's a non-sequitur. You keep addressing issues I haven't brought up. You didn't read up on straw-manning, did you? It's a shame, because you typed a lot without actually changing anything. I spoke of how many Muslims want to make homosexuality illegal, and you keep pointing toward other things. Feel free to talk about other things, but I'll just keep bringing up how many Muslims in the UK want to make homosexuality illegal.
You didn't provide a source on that statement. So I used the source provided to find similar conservative cultural attitudes and drew a logical inference. Because it turns out that viewpoints about homosexuality are nearly always tied up with other views on gender and sexuality norms, so it's reasonable to suggest that how you look at those things are indicative of the overall sentiment toward LGBTQ people as well.
And bluntly I've read what UK media say about LGBTQ folk more generally. You'll forgive me if I don't think Muslims are the biggest existential threat to their lives and safety. Indeed, that's the problem: if immigrants think that their more conservative values will find resonance in their new home, they're much more likely to hold onto them.
These are problems because you're blaming immigrants for them and not thinking of the larger system and environment around you.
These are problems because you WANT them to be problems rather than doing the hard work of fixing your heart and encouraging the same in others.
Again, I'm saying that Muslims have different values than the general UK and that immigration should be limited to that which can assimilate into the larger culture. I didn't say Muslims were going to take over or that Muslims are the largest existential threat to the LGBTQ population.
And I reiterate, I gave my reasons. You should know by now lots of times, life doesn't offer hard proof, so speculating is harmless - unless I had power, like as a juror, which hey, I don't.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:22 am
Again, I'm saying that Muslims have different values than the general UK and that immigration should be limited to that which can assimilate into the larger culture. I didn't say Muslims were going to take over or that Muslims are the largest existential threat to the LGBTQ population.
More straw men.
Which requires only time, which was pretty definitively the conclusion of the study you linked.
Extraordinary steps, which such strict vetting as suggested here is, require extraordinary cause. What you're asking for doesn't match the cause you're providing.
Which leads me to conclude you're deliberately obfuscating your goals and reasoning behind falsely polite language.
I find it more than ironic Darth tells me not to strawman, yet unironically says Muslims have different values. LOL.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 1:54 am
I find it more than ironic Darth tells me not to strawman, yet unironically says Muslims have different values. LOL.
They have different values, yes, but only as a culture, as all of our different tribal-state nations do. With that said, they're still human, and the majority of them have human values we can all share. Maybe if you said Arabs, that'd be different. Maybe. But you said Muslims, which can include white people too.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:22 am
Again, I'm saying that Muslims have different values than the general UK and that immigration should be limited to that which can assimilate into the larger culture. I didn't say Muslims were going to take over or that Muslims are the largest existential threat to the LGBTQ population.
More straw men.
Which requires only time, which was pretty definitively the conclusion of the study you linked.
Extraordinary steps, which such strict vetting as suggested here is, require extraordinary cause. What you're asking for doesn't match the cause you're providing.
Which leads me to conclude you're deliberately obfuscating your goals and reasoning behind falsely polite language.
Yes, assimilation requires time. Letting Muslims in is fine, but at a rate that allows assimilation. When an immigrant comes in, want him to be surrounded by people who think of themselves as part of the nation they're in. When have I said otherwise? Is there a parallel universe with some Darth Wedgius Prime saying kick out the Muslims? Does he have a mustache to twirl?
...Does it look good on him? I've wondered about growing a mustache.
