Babylon 5: Points of Departure

[Fianna]

Bear in mind, for those who don't know about the Minbari-souls-in-human-bodies thing, the war to exterminate humanity was seen as completely justified by the Minbari. So, from their perspective, a human ship fighting back and killing the Minbari sent to kill them is like a condemned prisoner killing one of the guards leading them to the electric chair; as they see it, it's a horrific act, because they're taking an innocent person's life to try and escape their just punishment. Though the fact that the reincarnation/orders from on high is the only reason most Minbari see for not going through with full scale genocide doesn't paint them in the best light, either.

As for Sheridan . . . when I watch B5, I do it for Lando and G'Kar. The human and Minbari characters are just sorta there on the side.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Fianna, what the flagnar.

Surely even the most genocidal maniac needs to understand that if you are a WARRIOR in the WARRIOR CASTE fighting a WAR, there's a real risk of you dying, and any other attitude is just being a crybaby with the arrogance of kings.

I...what the blueberry fuck? "Although fighting a war of genocide doesn't put them in the best light either"? There is no either! Every single human was fighting for survival. They don't get to pick an choose a high ground because somehow the entire human race DESERVED genocide?

It's entirely possible I'm reading you all wrong but I'm having trouble even thinking straight and looking at the words you wrote.

[J!!]

Well, that's the human viewpoint. Thing is though, that the Minbari are a culture of isolationist xenophobes; they're probably not very practiced at understanding any viewpoint other than their own, and their viewpoint is this.

The Minbari warrior caste didn't view us as worthy adversaries, or respected enemies, they viewed us as rats they'd been sent to exterminate. If you're an exterminator, and you hear a wounded rat calling out, you don't take it prisoner, you finish it off. And if a rat ever manages to use that fact to kill one of your coworkers, you're not likely to just shrug & say "well that's war for you".

And if your boss then makes that specific rat the new office pet, you might not be very kindly disposed toward the thing. Regardless of the fact that it was only trying to defend itself & it's kin.

[Fianna]

I...what the blueberry fuck? "Although fighting a war of genocide doesn't put them in the best light either"? There is no either!

I was going for humorous understatement there.

[TheLibrarian]

I'm probably a minority in this but I hold Sheridan in about the same regard as I hold Wesley Crusher--and for largely the same reasons.

If I wanted a disguised author insert Mary Sue who became a messiah/god as part of a writer's complement to himself I'd read bad fanfic.

You'd have to prove that Sheridan is JMS' persoanl stand in though or atleast make a compelling arguement

I mean unlike Marv Wolfman whose author insert was just him with a different name

Well, this was that period of his writing where JMS liked to give his protagonists the same initials as himself: Jeffrey Sinclair, John Sheridan, John Simon from Rising Stars --> Joe Straczynski. Just Sayin'.

The Minbari warrior caste didn't view us as worthy adversaries, or respected enemies, they viewed us as rats they'd been sent to exterminate. If you're an exterminator, and you hear a wounded rat calling out, you don't take it prisoner, you finish it off. And if a rat ever manages to use that fact to kill one of your coworkers, you're not likely to just shrug & say "well that's war for you".

And if your boss then makes that specific rat the new office pet, you might not be very kindly disposed toward the thing. Regardless of the fact that it was only trying to defend itself & it's kin.

This. And on top of that, the first time the Minbari encounter these rats, they kill the second-greatest leader the Minbari ever had, and the surviving members of the Grey Council immediately give the extermination order to avenge him.

Does anyone else get the sense Dukhat was the only member of the Warrior Caste to display any kind of wisdom or thoughtfulness? With his death, the ability to talk to the Warrior Caste on any kind of rational, reasonable level must have been exceedingly difficult. I guess Neroon eventually has a moment of enlightenment--too bad he doesn't survive it.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Again, why I prefer Klingons. They don't have the political agenda of Daleks combined with the presumed moral superiority of Elves.

[J!!]

Dwarves are better than Klingons. You get all the same drink'n & fight'n & going on quests, but without getting bogged down in all the bullshit rituals, & traditions, & politics.

[G-Man]

Does anyone else get the sense Dukhat was the only member of the Warrior Caste to display any kind of wisdom or thoughtfulness? With his death, the ability to talk to the Warrior Caste on any kind of rational, reasonable level must have been exceedingly difficult.

Do we know that Dukhat was warrior caste? I don't recall his caste being specified.

This. And on top of that, the first time the Minbari encounter these rats, they kill the second-greatest leader the Minbari ever had, and the surviving members of the Grey Council immediately give the extermination order to avenge him.

To be fair, it was a 5-to-4 decision. I like to think that all of the warriors voted to wait and find out what happened, along with one of the worker caste - and that with Delenn giving the order, all of the religious caste decided to go to war. It really colors why the warriors get so ticked off about the war - the religious caste started it, and then they have to have the dishonor of surrendering - and the religious caste lectures the warriors on how much less good they are. It's my headcanon.

[CharlesPhipps]

Everything you need to know about the Warrior caste can be summarized by the fact they sat out the Battle against Sauron/The Apocalypse because they were pissy.

And unlike Achilles, never came out of their tent.

Which, of course, invalidates their entire reason for existing.

[SFDebris]

Everything you need to know about the Warrior caste can be summarized by the fact they sat out the Battle against Sauron/The Apocalypse because they were pissy.

And unlike Achilles, never came out of their tent.

Which, of course, invalidates their entire reason for existing.

youtu.be/kZhJlGV2s_k