VOY - The Darkling

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well maybe, but Fight Club is probably still better than Batman.

[Fianna]

Data needed to be flooded with anger because, even with his ethical programming removed, he's dispassionate enough that he'd have no real reason to engage in evil behavior. The Doctor, however, is incredibly conceited and cantankerous even with his ethical programming reigning him in; without it, I can totally believe a bunch of dark urges would come to the surface.

[TheStarWarsTrek]

Ok, maybe Jekyll and Hyde is closer to the Kirk transporter split than a good vs evil split. Whatever.

I was trying to use Dr. Jekyll as an example of someone doing the biological equivalent of what the Doctor did. (Scientist decides he wants to alter his personality, uses Mad Science to do so, it has unpredictable results). That dosn't mean that pre-potion Hyde wasn't sapient.

Or if Jekyll is too specific for you, let's make up a story where a scientist/wizard decides he wants to improve his personality, and uses genetics/brain alternating cybernetics/magic to do so, but it all goes poorly. Dosn't mean that the scientist/wizard wasn't sapient.

Likewise,the Doctor strung a bunch of programs together in an attempt to improve his personality, and it had unintended consequences. That dosn't necessarily mean he isn't actually sapient.

Your example of Equinox does imply that it was more of an "evil switch". But it seems in this case it was the several different programs interacting with each other in unexpected ways, so what was supposed to be more compassionate bed side manner became Evil Side.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Or if Jekyll is too specific for you, let's make up a story where a scientist/wizard decides he wants to improve his personality, and uses genetics/brain alternating cybernetics/magic to do so, but it all goes poorly. Dosn't mean that the scientist/wizard wasn't sapient.

Nutty Professor (either version).

[Durandal_1707]

Ok, maybe Jekyll and Hyde is closer to the Kirk transporter split than a good vs evil split. Whatever.

I was trying to use Dr. Jekyll as an example of someone doing the biological equivalent of what the Doctor did. (Scientist decides he wants to alter his personality, uses Mad Science to do so, it has unpredictable results). That dosn't mean that pre-potion Hyde wasn't sapient.

Or if Jekyll is too specific for you, let's make up a story where a scientist/wizard decides he wants to improve his personality, and uses genetics/brain alternating cybernetics/magic to do so, but it all goes poorly. Dosn't mean that the scientist/wizard wasn't sapient.

You don't even have to go that far, and you don't have to make up a story; all you really need is a bad head injury to suddenly go from being a nice person to having severe psychiatric disorders. This happens all the time in real life, unfortunately.

In the end, we're all machines.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Ok, maybe Jekyll and Hyde is closer to the Kirk transporter split than a good vs evil split. Whatever.

I was trying to use Dr. Jekyll as an example of someone doing the biological equivalent of what the Doctor did. (Scientist decides he wants to alter his personality, uses Mad Science to do so, it has unpredictable results). That dosn't mean that pre-potion Hyde wasn't sapient.

Or if Jekyll is too specific for you, let's make up a story where a scientist/wizard decides he wants to improve his personality, and uses genetics/brain alternating cybernetics/magic to do so, but it all goes poorly. Dosn't mean that the scientist/wizard wasn't sapient.

In the end, we're all machines.

Feels like a lot of people don't really grasp that at the end of the day, everything about a human being and society predicates on us being high functioning biological machines. Very inefficient ones granted.

[Fianna]

I guess the real issue is that the Doctor shouldn't be treating the idea of altering his programming so casually. Certainly, if one of the biological crew members talked about getting some brain surgery done to alter their personality, everyone would be telling them, "Are you effin' NUTS!?!"

[bronnt]

I guess the real issue is that the Doctor shouldn't be treating the idea of altering his programming so casually. Certainly, if one of the biological crew members talked about getting some brain surgery done to alter their personality, everyone would be telling them, "Are you effin' NUTS!?!"

It's not something he should be doing completely on his own as an experiment, that's for sure. At a minimum, he really should have gotten someone experienced in programming to look at the alterations he wanted to make to his code before proceeding. Perhaps he should have sequestered another server, like the holodeck, in order to "beta test" his personality changes. And then perhaps built in a way to revert back to "safe mode" so he could roll back any issues he might be having. And had someone check to make sure his own self-diagnostics were still functioning after his code was changed.

His utter lack of safety precautions caused him to injure at least two people, and nearly got two other people killed. It's the sort of thing that should have had some consequences, like, "You're forbidden to alter your code without the express approval of a command-level officer now because your judgment sucks."

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I kinda liked how there was an emotional math puzzle going on in the background.

We've seen plenty of episodes where holodecks make fully fleshed out personalities, though our reference frame of consciousness is mostly fine with them not being real people. With the doctor adopting those personalities though, they're a step closer to tangible personalities albeit manifested by the doctor. Then it turns out the personality functions themselves are just the doctor's own latent subconscious routine.

They even give you a big clue at the start because the doctor wasn't even concerned about Kes's exhibited professional conduct, just her social life. Like, you're not my dad, EMH. F off.

[Madner Kami]

As a sidenote. Does anyone remember the details about the Ocampa sex-life?