Is there something that's the opposite of Star Wars in terms of how it relates to SciFi and Fantasy?

[ProfessorDetective]

Reminds me of 'Mage: the Ascension'. Science IS magic, or, rather, 'science' is what happens after Magic has been slowly limited and broken down over millennia by an ancient conspiracy that started out doing it to protect the world from genuine EVIL sorcerer-kings but slowly morphed into basically the Illuminati. 'Magic', in turn, is simply the collective subconscious will of humanity telling the universe HOW THE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, with the conspiracy manipulating that Consensus away from the 'mystical' to the 'mundane'. The protagonists (Willworkers/Mages/super scientists/what-have-you) can drown out the rest of humanity, if only in a limited fashion, to do just about anything... As long as it's not TOO loud, 'cause Reality snaps back when you push it too far, and that recoil can be a Witch (ha).

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Reminds me of 'Mage: the Ascension'. Science IS magic, or, rather, 'science' is what happens after Magic has been slowly limited and broken down over millennia by an ancient conspiracy that started out doing it to protect the world from genuine EVIL sorcerer-kings but slowly morphed into basically the Illuminati. 'Magic', in turn, is simply the collective subconscious will of humanity telling the universe HOW THE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, with the conspiracy manipulating that Consensus away from the 'mystical' to the 'mundane'. The protagonists (Willworkers/Mages/super scientists/what-have-you) can drown out the rest of humanity, if only in a limited fashion, to do just about anything... As long as it's not TOO loud, 'cause Reality snaps back when you push it too far, and that recoil can be a Witch (ha).

Yes, very sci-fi.

This is more or less my own developed manifestation connecting dreams, afterlife, and vampires/werewolves.

[GreyICE]

Reminds me of 'Mage: the Ascension'. Science IS magic, or, rather, 'science' is what happens after Magic has been slowly limited and broken down over millennia by an ancient conspiracy that started out doing it to protect the world from genuine EVIL sorcerer-kings but slowly morphed into basically the Illuminati. 'Magic', in turn, is simply the collective subconscious will of humanity telling the universe HOW THE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, with the conspiracy manipulating that Consensus away from the 'mystical' to the 'mundane'. The protagonists (Willworkers/Mages/super scientists/what-have-you) can drown out the rest of humanity, if only in a limited fashion, to do just about anything... As long as it's not TOO loud, 'cause Reality snaps back when you push it too far, and that recoil can be a Witch (ha).

Yup, always a fun concept. It's interesting to contrast with Mage: the Awakening (which I like more) that's rather more traditional fantasy, although still maintaining a lot of the same feel.

In Mage: the Awakening, a group of mages at some point in the past - when is vague, for reasons we'll get to - ascended to the Supernal Realm. There they became Exarchs, beings of immense godlike power. When they had ascended, they tore down the Silver Ladder that magic flowed along, leaving a gaping abyss in its place. The abyss is a hungry force that consumes magic, but with their power they were able to work it. They took it, and bound it to humans with a vast abyssworking that hid magic from humans. If a human goes anywhere magical or sees any magic, the abyssworking will act, lashing out at the magic, and changing the human's mind to rationalize away what they witnessed (gas leak, special effect, spiked punch, etc.). They rewrote history to remove all traces of themselves and their culture.

So all over the world, there's thousand of hidden sites, places where you can take a turn and end up somewhere magical. And if you're a normal human, your eyes will just glaze over them. If you see magic, your mind will rationalize it away (and the Abyss will attack the mage). So mages on earth carefully draw their magic from the Supernal realm across the chasm of the abyss, struggling not to bring pieces of the abyss with them as they draw it, and trying to discover what the lost cultures were and how they used magic.

It's a very similar idea, approached from a very different angle (also funnily it's a lot mechanically tighter than Ascension, but that's just White Wolf)

[ProfessorDetective]

Reminds me of 'Mage: the Ascension'. Science IS magic, or, rather, 'science' is what happens after Magic has been slowly limited and broken down over millennia by an ancient conspiracy that started out doing it to protect the world from genuine EVIL sorcerer-kings but slowly morphed into basically the Illuminati. 'Magic', in turn, is simply the collective subconscious will of humanity telling the universe HOW THE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, with the conspiracy manipulating that Consensus away from the 'mystical' to the 'mundane'. The protagonists (Willworkers/Mages/super scientists/what-have-you) can drown out the rest of humanity, if only in a limited fashion, to do just about anything... As long as it's not TOO loud, 'cause Reality snaps back when you push it too far, and that recoil can be a Witch (ha).

Yes, very sci-fi.

This is more or less my own developed manifestation connecting dreams, afterlife, and vampires/werewolves.

I assume you're familiar with the World of Darkness? If not... Yeah, ALL of that is in there.

[ProfessorDetective]

Reminds me of 'Mage: the Ascension'. Science IS magic, or, rather, 'science' is what happens after Magic has been slowly limited and broken down over millennia by an ancient conspiracy that started out doing it to protect the world from genuine EVIL sorcerer-kings but slowly morphed into basically the Illuminati. 'Magic', in turn, is simply the collective subconscious will of humanity telling the universe HOW THE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, with the conspiracy manipulating that Consensus away from the 'mystical' to the 'mundane'. The protagonists (Willworkers/Mages/super scientists/what-have-you) can drown out the rest of humanity, if only in a limited fashion, to do just about anything... As long as it's not TOO loud, 'cause Reality snaps back when you push it too far, and that recoil can be a Witch (ha).

Yup, always a fun concept. It's interesting to contrast with Mage: the Awakening (which I like more) that's rather more traditional fantasy, although still maintaining a lot of the same feel.

In Mage: the Awakening, a group of mages at some point in the past - when is vague, for reasons we'll get to - ascended to the Supernal Realm. There they became Exarchs, beings of immense godlike power. When they had ascended, they tore down the Silver Ladder that magic flowed along, leaving a gaping abyss in its place. The abyss is a hungry force that consumes magic, but with their power they were able to work it. They took it, and bound it to humans with a vast abyssworking that hid magic from humans. If a human goes anywhere magical or sees any magic, the abyssworking will act, lashing out at the magic, and changing the human's mind to rationalize away what they witnessed (gas leak, special effect, spiked punch, etc.). They rewrote history to remove all traces of themselves and their culture.

So all over the world, there's thousand of hidden sites, places where you can take a turn and end up somewhere magical. And if you're a normal human, your eyes will just glaze over them. If you see magic, your mind will rationalize it away (and the Abyss will attack the mage). So mages on earth carefully draw their magic from the Supernal realm across the chasm of the abyss, struggling not to bring pieces of the abyss with them as they draw it, and trying to discover what the lost cultures were and how they used magic.

It's a very similar idea, approached from a very different angle (also funnily it's a lot mechanically tighter than Ascension, but that's just White Wolf)

Of course their similar: Awakening is Ascension's more-refined successor. For the record: I prefer Ascension's setting, but Awakening (like most of the Chronicles) is MUCH better mechanically.

Though, what I've read of Vampire V5 gives me hope that Mage 5e could be the best of both.

[GreyICE]

Of course their similar: Awakening is Ascension's more-refined successor. For the record: I prefer Ascension's setting, but Awakening (like most of the Chronicles) is MUCH better mechanically.

Though, what I've read of Vampire V5 gives me hope that Mage 5e could be the best of both.

I've found that Awakening is like a lot of NWOD (or COD I suppose) - it sounds less good on paper, but it plays better in practice. There's a lot more activities for a group to do in Awakening, and the mystical focus gives everything a certain coherence that Ascension really lacked.

We'll see on M5. The train wreck that was M20, and the current train wreck that is W5 and V5's new owners don't give me much hope. I really doubt Paradox has any desire to start going after M5 given the current state of V5/W5's messes and the fact that Mage translates extremely poorly into video games.

[Hero_Of_Shadows]

If we're talking old WOD vs new WOD my opinion as just a Vampire player: Requiem is a better game to me but I recognize why Masquerade might be a better multi media experience to others.

Requiem is streamlined and you have more agency while playing but at the same time a huge part of the setting is left deliberately vague for the storyteller to fill in.

This is good when you actually get to play but if you're like me and others and spend a lot of time reading RPG books and less time playing Masquerade has more material and more novel-like stories.

Overall I like the mechanics and clans from Requiem but I'd like to have more definite lore in the setting plus something like the Andeleluvians to give that ancient eldritch horror.

[McAvoy]

Without reading the whole thread, the only thing I can think of is Technomages from Babylon 5. Magic made from technology that looks like magic.

That is the only example I can think of.

There is a slight element within Stargate SG-1 that suggest this as well. Fantasy through technology that is disguised as very low tech. When I mean, slight element I do mean that there is a element of technology disguised as magic or supernatural power.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think Wild Wild West is the opposite of Star Wars.