DIS Will you take my hand

[GreyICE]

Does anyone else ever wonder if they changed them because they were embarrassed that their "savage warrior culture" was black people with prosthetic foreheads?

There's plenty of white Klingons. Martok, Gowron, Chang, Gorkon, and so on. It's just that Worf is now the iconic Klingon.

Also, rebuttal from a friend of color, "Klingons started as racially problematic, being white guys in brownface, but then they became awesome."

I'm not saying they're not awesome, I just have always wondered. The TNG Klingon look with the Discovery Klingon tribal warrior aesthetic is a bit unfortunate. TNG (and really DS9) made Klingons nuanced and interesting, but Discovery Klingons were pretty two dimensional.

Also, DISCO *IS* episodic.

It's got an overarching plot but is broken up among a bunch of other episodes:

* Battle of Binary Stars
* Mudd
* Prison Break
* Mirror Universe Arc
* Magic Tree Planet

It's just it's a shorter season.

Oh come now, Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 did standalone episodes, but that doesn't make them episodic. Discovery is centered around overarching plot lines, and they're all fucking terrible. Fucking unbelievably terrible.

[Link8909]

Does anyone else ever wonder if they changed them because they were embarrassed that their "savage warrior culture" was black people with prosthetic foreheads?

There's plenty of white Klingons. Martok, Gowron, Chang, Gorkon, and so on. It's just that Worf is now the iconic Klingon.

Also, rebuttal from a friend of color, "Klingons started as racially problematic, being white guys in brownface, but then they became awesome."

I'm not saying they're not awesome, I just have always wondered. The TNG Klingon look with the Discovery Klingon tribal warrior aesthetic is a bit unfortunate. TNG (and really DS9) made Klingons nuanced and interesting, but Discovery Klingons were pretty two dimensional.

I could be wrong but I think for when it was Star Trek The Motion Picture, it was pretty much because they had the money to do so, for Star Trek Discovery it was because Bryan Fuller wanted to have his own Klingons, which while I do like the Klingons in Discovery and I've said as to why already, I think was a bad call, change for the sake of change is not a good idea.

Personally I think the Klingons from The Original Series and the TOS Movie era are the best Klingons, having that Honor mentality but being more subdued and have nuances to them like General Chang and Chancellor Gorkon, Commander Kruge is also a highly underrated Star Trek villain and if you've seen Linkara's comic adaptation of The Search For Spock review he brings up points as to why, while Commander Worf and General Martok are great characters and show nuance, most other Klingons in the TNG era double down on the Space Viking's portrayal of Klingons and most times I wonder how this culture gets anything done.

If anyone wants more Klingon talk, I highly recommend watching Star Trek Online Ten Forward Weekly: Interview with Sam Witwer, I'll put a link here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wcvj60NekM

[CrypticMirror]

Discovery is bad, but its a salvagable bad. G

Yeah, they just need to do a full recast with a new crew, create a new ship with better aesthetics, and move the show into the post Picard era. Also drop those storylines about how the Federation is horrible and doomed to failure except for the actions of super dirty spy agencies. Totally salvageable.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yeah, they just need to do a full recast with a new crew, create a new ship with better aesthetics, and move the show into the post Picard era. Totally salvageable.

Or, you know, some people like me are looking forward to watching the third season. The thing about fan outrage is that when the initial wave passes, sometimes it results in plenty of people still around who enjoyed it. CBS keeps rolling out new Star Trek shows not because Discovery has failed but because it's succeeded.

There's also an irony that you HAVE described upcoming CBS shows.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds and Picard specifically

Anyway, I'm going to watch Season 3 for Tilly, Saru, and whatshername. The lady with the boy's name.

Also drop those storylines about how the Federation is horrible and doomed to failure except for the actions of super dirty spy agencies.

This I'm just confused by. Do you mean Section 31? The organization that was suffered a 100% mortality rate rate and literally almost destroyed the galaxy? The show is very clear only Federation values will succeed.

[MightyDavidson]

Yeah, they just need to do a full recast with a new crew, create a new ship with better aesthetics, and move the show into the post Picard era. Totally salvageable.

Or, you know, some people like me are looking forward to watching the third season. The thing about fan outrage is that when the initial wave passes, sometimes it results in plenty of people still around who enjoyed it. CBS keeps rolling out new Star Trek shows not because Discovery has failed but because it's succeeded.

There's also an irony that you HAVE described upcoming CBS shows.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds and Picard specifically

Anyway, I'm going to watch Season 3 for Tilly, Saru, and whatshername. The lady with the boy's name.

Also drop those storylines about how the Federation is horrible and doomed to failure except for the actions of super dirty spy agencies.

This I'm just confused by. Do you mean Section 31? The organization that was suffered a 100% mortality rate rate and literally almost destroyed the galaxy? The show is very clear only Federation values will succeed.

Has Section 31 even shown up outside of Deep Space Nine? I know the Discovery was meant to be a top secret research ship but I don't remember Section 31 being mentioned in connection with it.

[CharlesPhipps]

Has Section 31 even shown up outside of Deep Space Nine? I know the Discovery was meant to be a top secret research ship but I don't remember Section 31 being mentioned in connection with it.

Section 31's version of Skynet is the focus of DISCO Season 2.

DISCO's version is controversial because it's explicitly not a rogue agency but the Federation's intelligence branch.

[GreyICE]

Discovery is bad, but its a salvagable bad. G

Yeah, they just need to do a full recast with a new crew, create a new ship with better aesthetics, and move the show into the post Picard era. Also drop those storylines about how the Federation is horrible and doomed to failure except for the actions of super dirty spy agencies. Totally salvageable.

Yes, yes, every single actor is awful, the ship is awful, and everything about it is bad. Also those damn dirty kids run around playing Fort Knights and scissoring on those awful videos. They need to get off the internet and get a job!

Thanks gramps, I always want to know what a cranky invalid thinks about things.

[CrypticMirror]

Discovery is bad, but its a salvagable bad. G

Yeah, they just need to do a full recast with a new crew, create a new ship with better aesthetics, and move the show into the post Picard era. Also drop those storylines about how the Federation is horrible and doomed to failure except for the actions of super dirty spy agencies. Totally salvageable.

Yes, yes, every single actor is awful, the ship is awful, and everything about it is bad.

Glad we are finally on the same page. Yes, exactly. Good to be in alignment at last.

Also those damn dirty kids run around playing Fort Knights

Well, really the fort should have its own Knights, and they can take care of any kids. Let the Fort's Knights deal with it, that is what the Castellan pays them for.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yes, yes, every single actor is awful, the ship is awful, and everything about it is bad. Also those damn dirty kids run around playing Fort Knights and scissoring on those awful videos. They need to get off the internet and get a job!

Thanks gramps, I always want to know what a cranky invalid thinks about things.

I'm honestly wondering what the unhappy fans WOULDN'T complain about.

[Link8909]

Yeah, they just need to do a full recast with a new crew, create a new ship with better aesthetics, and move the show into the post Picard era. Totally salvageable.

Yes, yes, every single actor is awful, the ship is awful, and everything about it is bad. Also those damn dirty kids run around playing Fort Knights and scissoring on those awful videos. They need to get off the internet and get a job!

Thanks gramps, I always want to know what a cranky invalid thinks about things.

Or, you know, some people like me are looking forward to watching the third season. The thing about fan outrage is that when the initial wave passes, sometimes it results in plenty of people still around who enjoyed it. CBS keeps rolling out new Star Trek shows not because Discovery has failed but because it's succeeded.

There's also an irony that you HAVE described upcoming CBS shows.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds and Picard specifically

Anyway, I'm going to watch Season 3 for Tilly, Saru, and whatshername. The lady with the boy's name.

I'm honestly wondering what the unhappy fans WOULDN'T complain about.

Pretty much, fan outrage isn't even new, I recall similar outrage towards Deep Space Nine and Voyager, with Deep Space Nine it is now celebrated for the very things people were critical about back then, and while Voyager has it's flaws there are people that still enjoy it for what it is, and while it was before my time, I recall The Next Generation getting similar outrage as well, it even isn't isolated to the Star Trek franchise, I remember the fan outrage agains Beast Wars, with the slogan "Truck, Not Monkey!"

However because of the Internet, people are a lot more vocal, what was once a physical letter to the studio is now hundreds of Twitter and YouTube posts of people foaming at the mouth with their displeasure, and even writing reality based fan fictions in the form of News/Rumour "Reports".

So while I'm all for looking at any piece of media and seeing what works and what doesn't, in this day and age it's a lot harder and more tedious to do so, so I've tried to enjoy the new Star Trek series for what they are and not what I want them to be, willing to listen to genuine criticism while acknowledging them but also celebrating what is good about the series, staying away from the dumpster fire that is YouTube and Twitter, and just being happy that Star Trek is back with a vengeance and willing to try something different, and just keeping a positive mindset about the whole thing.

I’m really looking forward to more Discovery and Picard, really looking forward to watching Lower Decks, and am excited for Strange New Worlds.