VOY: "Nightingale"

[CrypticMirror]

And yet, despite all of this, he amounts to nothing in 7 years despite others being promoted beside him. Why?

Because the writers are garbage and forget what they've put their characters through? Like he's been put outside he comfort zone plenty of times and been fine, he's been in firefights, almost died more times than I care to count, been a department head for years at this point, been put in charge of voyager, and lead away missions. At this point what he deals with in this episode wouldn't even be outside his comfort zone, but the writers treat him like, not even a fresh academy graduate but like some random guy they grabbed and put in charge.

I like to think that Harry was in one of those fast track programmes you see sometimes. They take someone with little experience, but whom they suspect have great potential, and shuttle them through as many posts and roles as they can to get them seasoned and experienced at a bit of everything. Maybe Harry had Voyager as his first posting, was only supposed to be there for their week or two of Maquis round up, then back home for a debrief and mission autopsy, then off to another short post, lather rinse repeat, only he got stuck when Janeway chose to strand them all in the Delta quadrant.

The problem with those programmes, of course, is exactly what we see with Harry. A lot of people in them wash out, burn out, or just get stuck in one role they cannot get out. A few do go onto great things and develop great potential, but the human wastage rate is absurd. Harry was a potential high flyer, but turned out to just be supported by the occasional puff of wind. If it wasn't for the Janeway factor, he'd probably still have burned out in a junior role, like alt!Picard in Tapestry who was forty years as a junior lieutenant. Harry would have got a little further than Ensign, back home, but only a little. He probably became a file clerk in Utopia Planetia.

[clearspira]

And yet, despite all of this, he amounts to nothing in 7 years despite others being promoted beside him. Why?

Because the writers are garbage and forget what they've put their characters through? Like he's been put outside he comfort zone plenty of times and been fine, he's been in firefights, almost died more times than I care to count, been a department head for years at this point, been put in charge of voyager, and lead away missions. At this point what he deals with in this episode wouldn't even be outside his comfort zone, but the writers treat him like, not even a fresh academy graduate but like some random guy they grabbed and put in charge.

I like to think that Harry was in one of those fast track programmes you see sometimes. They take someone with little experience, but whom they suspect have great potential, and shuttle them through as many posts and roles as they can to get them seasoned and experienced at a bit of everything. Maybe Harry had Voyager as his first posting, was only supposed to be there for their week or two of Maquis round up, then back home for a debrief and mission autopsy, then off to another short post, lather rinse repeat, only he got stuck when Janeway chose to strand them all in the Delta quadrant.

The problem with those programmes, of course, is exactly what we see with Harry. A lot of people in them wash out, burn out, or just get stuck in one role they cannot get out. A few do go onto great things and develop great potential, but the human wastage rate is absurd. Harry was a potential high flyer, but turned out to just be supported by the occasional puff of wind. If it wasn't for the Janeway factor, he'd probably still have burned out in a junior role, like alt!Picard in Tapestry who was forty years as a junior lieutenant. Harry would have got a little further than Ensign, back home, but only a little. He probably became a file clerk in Utopia Planetia.

''Alt-Picard'' is a very good summation of what I was trying to get at. Because yes, the writers unfairly treated him as green as the Hulk throughout his entire run, but equally nothing convinces me that with his personality he was ever destined for anything more. Funnily enough, if you go to TVTropes and look at the YMMV for ''Voyager'', Kim is currently down as the sole winner of the trope ''Expectation Lowerer''.

We compared him to Wesley earlier, but let us also look at Nog. As Chuck pointed out, in those seven years he went from the boy that perhaps served Kim his drink in Quark's bar, to cadet, to ensign, to a veteran lieutenant. And he is by no means as naturally talented as Kim is meant to be - he just works and studies hard.
Or what about Hoshi? Perennial ensign for four seasons and then went down in history as the inventor of the Universal Translator.

Kim is smoke without fire and little else.

[MrL1992]

Boy did this review, prominently featuring a certain character, have interesting timing...

I am NOT saying Chuck has insider info or anything...

[TrueMetis]

And yet, despite all of this, he amounts to nothing in 7 years despite others being promoted beside him. Why?

Because the writers are garbage and forget what they've put their characters through? Like he's been put outside he comfort zone plenty of times and been fine, he's been in firefights, almost died more times than I care to count, been a department head for years at this point, been put in charge of voyager, and lead away missions. At this point what he deals with in this episode wouldn't even be outside his comfort zone, but the writers treat him like, not even a fresh academy graduate but like some random guy they grabbed and put in charge.

I like to think that Harry was in one of those fast track programmes you see sometimes. They take someone with little experience, but whom they suspect have great potential, and shuttle them through as many posts and roles as they can to get them seasoned and experienced at a bit of everything. Maybe Harry had Voyager as his first posting, was only supposed to be there for their week or two of Maquis round up, then back home for a debrief and mission autopsy, then off to another short post, lather rinse repeat, only he got stuck when Janeway chose to strand them all in the Delta quadrant.

The problem with those programmes, of course, is exactly what we see with Harry. A lot of people in them wash out, burn out, or just get stuck in one role they cannot get out. A few do go onto great things and develop great potential, but the human wastage rate is absurd. Harry was a potential high flyer, but turned out to just be supported by the occasional puff of wind. If it wasn't for the Janeway factor, he'd probably still have burned out in a junior role, like alt!Picard in Tapestry who was forty years as a junior lieutenant. Harry would have got a little further than Ensign, back home, but only a little. He probably became a file clerk in Utopia Planetia.

I can't say I agree, being stranded on voyager would be way more stressful than any fast track program, and do basically the same thing. Day to day Kim can go from his normal job (which let's remember, is controlling and overseeing pretty much everything that happens on the ship) to helping design and build brand new kind of warp engines, shuttle, or astometrics lab, talking down a sentient bomb to keep it from murdering innocent people, engaging in firefights and doing better than the actual fucking security team, or having to survive by himself for days while trying to get back to the delta flyer after it crashed. If he didn't burn out from that, he's not going to burnout from anything else.

The only reason he's not promoted, outside of writer stupidity, is that Janeway doesn't promote him. Not because he hasn't earned it, not because he isn't capable, and not because it isn't necessary, but just because she doesn't. Even though it make no sense to keep him an ensign when he's a department head, has a seat at the table in the briefing room, and gets to order actual lieutenants around. In any sane organization Harry would have been one of the people receiving a field promotion when voyager got stranded, and then probably a couple more afterward just for good measure.

I know guys with the wide range of skills Harry has, and no one is going to waste skills like that by making him a file clerk, and I also know guys with personality similar to Harry's it's not a barrier to promotion in the slightest. Hell one of the best MWO's I ever had was damn near identical. In Star Trek Barclay's way worse the Harry, but he makes it to Lieutenant just fine, and that makes perfect sense.

If Harry hadn't been on voyager he would have flown through the ranks, his only problem would have been if he had had one of those shitty bosses that don't want you promoted because your too good at your job and you make them look good.

With Voyager he would have gotten back, Starfleet would have looked through his file and almost certainly given him several retroactive promotions. Full Lt if they're being cautious, Lt Cmd is they're not.

[Jonathan101]

And yet, despite all of this, he amounts to nothing in 7 years despite others being promoted beside him. Why?

Because the writers are garbage and forget what they've put their characters through? Like he's been put outside he comfort zone plenty of times and been fine, he's been in firefights, almost died more times than I care to count, been a department head for years at this point, been put in charge of voyager, and lead away missions. At this point what he deals with in this episode wouldn't even be outside his comfort zone, but the writers treat him like, not even a fresh academy graduate but like some random guy they grabbed and put in charge.

I like to think that Harry was in one of those fast track programmes you see sometimes. They take someone with little experience, but whom they suspect have great potential, and shuttle them through as many posts and roles as they can to get them seasoned and experienced at a bit of everything. Maybe Harry had Voyager as his first posting, was only supposed to be there for their week or two of Maquis round up, then back home for a debrief and mission autopsy, then off to another short post, lather rinse repeat, only he got stuck when Janeway chose to strand them all in the Delta quadrant.

The problem with those programmes, of course, is exactly what we see with Harry. A lot of people in them wash out, burn out, or just get stuck in one role they cannot get out. A few do go onto great things and develop great potential, but the human wastage rate is absurd. Harry was a potential high flyer, but turned out to just be supported by the occasional puff of wind. If it wasn't for the Janeway factor, he'd probably still have burned out in a junior role, like alt!Picard in Tapestry who was forty years as a junior lieutenant. Harry would have got a little further than Ensign, back home, but only a little. He probably became a file clerk in Utopia Planetia.

I can't say I agree, being stranded on voyager would be way more stressful than any fast track program, and do basically the same thing. Day to day Kim can go from his normal job (which let's remember, is controlling and overseeing pretty much everything that happens on the ship) to helping design and build brand new kind of warp engines, shuttle, or astometrics lab, talking down a sentient bomb to keep it from murdering innocent people, engaging in firefights and doing better than the actual fucking security team, or having to survive by himself for days while trying to get back to the delta flyer after it crashed. If he didn't burn out from that, he's not going to burnout from anything else.

The only reason he's not promoted, outside of writer stupidity, is that Janeway doesn't promote him. Not because he hasn't earned it, not because he isn't capable, and not because it isn't necessary, but just because she doesn't. Even though it make no sense to keep him an ensign when he's a department head, has a seat at the table in the briefing room, and gets to order actual lieutenants around. In any sane organization Harry would have been one of the people receiving a field promotion when voyager got stranded, and then probably a couple more afterward just for good measure.

I know guys with the wide range of skills Harry has, and no one is going to waste skills like that by making him a file clerk, and I also know guys with personality similar to Harry's it's not a barrier to promotion in the slightest. Hell one of the best MWO's I ever had was damn near identical. In Star Trek Barclay's way worse the Harry, but he makes it to Lieutenant just fine, and that makes perfect sense.

If Harry hadn't been on voyager he would have flown through the ranks, his only problem would have been if he had had one of those shitty bosses that don't want you promoted because your too good at your job and you make them look good.

With Voyager he would have gotten back, Starfleet would have looked through his file and almost certainly given him several retroactive promotions. Full Lt if they're being cautious, Lt Cmd is they're not.

Almost nobody on the ship got promoted.

My understanding was that career advancement opportunities were EXTREMELY limited on account of, you know, being stranded on the other side of the galaxy and stuff. There aren't all that many vacancies to fill.

I'm sure a lot of promotions were handed out once they got back to the Alpha Quadrant.

[Fianna]

Plus, if you promote him out of being an ensign, who's going to replace him at his ensign duties? Sometimes you need to keep talented people in low-level grunt positions, because you have a shortage of grunts.

Sure, Tom Paris eventually got promoted, but as Chuck likes to point out, Tom Paris is an expert at everything. If only one person on Voyager is going to be promoted, it's gonna be him.

[clearspira]

Plus, if you promote him out of being an ensign, who's going to replace him at his ensign duties? Sometimes you need to keep talented people in low-level grunt positions, because you have a shortage of grunts.

Sure, Tom Paris eventually got promoted, but as Chuck likes to point out, Tom Paris is an expert at everything. If only one person on Voyager is going to be promoted, it's gonna be him.

Tom Paris is the only guy in the universe who could recruit Ace Rimmer as a sidekick.

[Jonathan101]

Plus, if you promote him out of being an ensign, who's going to replace him at his ensign duties? Sometimes you need to keep talented people in low-level grunt positions, because you have a shortage of grunts.

Sure, Tom Paris eventually got promoted, but as Chuck likes to point out, Tom Paris is an expert at everything. If only one person on Voyager is going to be promoted, it's gonna be him.

Tom Paris is the only guy in the universe who could recruit Ace Rimmer as a sidekick.

Let's not go nuts.

[kingofmadcows]

I remember watching this episode and getting really annoyed that Voyager didn't try to get the cloaking technology in exchange for helping the Annari. I doubt they're concerned about following the Treaty of Algeron at this point. They had a great opportunity to get a piece of technology that could help them immensely by avoiding potential threats, and they just threw it away.

[Jonathan101]

I remember watching this episode and getting really annoyed that Voyager didn't try to get the cloaking technology in exchange for helping the Annari. I doubt they're concerned about following the Treaty of Algeron at this point. They had a great opportunity to get a piece of technology that could help them immensely by avoiding potential threats, and they just threw it away.

I'm not sure they wouldn't be concerned. They wouldn't want any word to get back to the Romulans who might take it the wrong way, especially since their flight path would actually take them either pass or through Romulan territory.

Last thing you want to worry about when you are spending years travelling through hostile territory is causing an intergalactic incident back in your home.

I also tend to assume that they don't really need to "acquire" cloaking technology as they probably already know how it works and could have built one at any time if they really wanted to; they just chose not to all throughout the show.