DS9: Business as Usual

[Formless One]

Also, I would just like to note that we know for a fact that civilians on DS9 are allowed to own and possess weapons for personal use. In Way of the Warrior we learn that Quark himself owned a phaser, and didn't think Odo would protest if he wanted to stay behind with it to defend his bar. Of course, he also didn't know that Rom had swiped it, and it is technically a Bajoran station rather than a Federation one. But still, there are probably other examples besides this. I think at the end of the day, while Sisko and the crew treated Quark a bit harshly, I think it had less to do with their attitude towards weapons and more their attitude towards the black market for weapons. Its like the difference between Sisko allowing a licensed blade and gun shop opening on the promenade and turning a blind eye to someone selling Saturday Night Specials unauthorized in a dark room. Plus, Quark talked about his cousin in previous episodes, so they all likely know that the guy sells on massive scales to planetary governments and resistance movements like the Maquis. So in terms of scale that analogy doesn't quite do justice to the business Quark's cousin is in.

Still, the point probably would have been better made if they expressed it more in terms of grave disappointment in their friend for stooping so low (and after doing not too dissimilar business with the Maquis no less) rather than going with the usual righteous indignation that Starfleet tends to indulge in.

[Sir Will]

even selling to one tyrannical overlord is too far in their view

...no shit. Of course 1 genocide is too many!

Not in the case of bombing that colony - Sisko had no way to know it would work past purely intuition. It could have failed, and then he would have been no different than any other tyrant out there. And besides, it was being done to uphold a peace treat that was failing to keep the peace. And yet Sisko still gets in Quark's face over selling to those kind of people, even though on average, they also sell to rebel freedom fighters. Is it worth doing a little bad if you also do a little good too? That's what he did. You'd think he'd be able to see that.

Yeah I still hate that episode. That was wrong on so many levels.

I definitely think there's a difference to be made in individual ownership vs. what we see in the episode - large-scale sales without any regard to who the clientele is. Gaila's objection to selling to the General wasn't "But we're supporting the Regent and his honorable quest!" but rather "Selling to both sides in a war is incredibly dangerous and has to be handled with care." Quark was willing to claim that the weapons he sells are in self-defense, but there is no self-defense excuse for "murder 28 million people to 'set an example.'" And it's likely Sisko and Kira (and in turn the Federation) are aware of Hagath's full range of items he sells, which includes bioweapons. The Federation already is against interfering in internal matters, which includes resistance movements and rebellions unless it's a war they're participating in, so it's not surprising that they'd take a dim view of arms merchants who'd take advantage of internal matters to line their pockets just to kill people. After all, in terms of modern day comparison, just look at all the scandals throughout the USA's history of supplying arms to groups for the purposes of the Cold War and making regions destabilized and innocents killed. So yeah, them being against arms sellers like Hagath who can't exactly claim self-defense when he's selling bio-weapons is not all that shocking.

If there's one thing I kind of want to object to, it's that while it's funny, it's not fair to compare Janeway's situation to Quark's. There's a video floating out that humorously keeps track of how many torpedoes Voyager fires after the initial listing of how many they possess and pointing out that they can't just replicate new ones (assuming Voyager doesn't resupply off-screen, they went negative torpedoes fairly early in the journey). With a 70-year journey ahead and hostile forces constantly surrounding them, Voyager needs to trade for new supplies... which will include weapons. Plus the guy was a legitimate arms dealer, licensed and everything, vs. Quark who was illegally participating in arms sales (not that Sisko would approve of arms sales on the station anyway, legal or otherwise).

Agreed, on both counts. While funny, Voyager really did need to resupply or upgrade their weapons. There were no Federation stations that could do it so what they couldn't replicate they had to trade for.

I liked this episode, but it really portrayed Starfleet as a bunch of unsympathetic jerks.

Quark got in trouble with his people, literally nicknamed "Starfleet's favorite bartender", because of his friendliness with Starfleet, like that time when he broke with tradition and paid to settle a labour dispute. This resulted in his people literally demanding that he kill himself to prove himself as a true Ferengi, and he couldn't go through with it, resulting in his excommunication. And his Starfleet friends showed up to support him like in the ending scene of It's a Wonderful Life.

But one year later and that happy scene wasn't worth so much, as Quark explains to Dax that he's been forced to put his bar up as collateral for three different shady loans, and if he doesn't pay the loans off in one week his creditors are going to have him killed when they find out that they can't collect 300% of his bar.

Do Quark's Federation friends save him from this fate? Nope. Okay, maybe this is all news to them and they haven't had time to formulate a "save Quark" plan, but... Quark is seriously screwed and their friendship isn't saving him, it's what put him in this position to begin with.

So in desperation, he grabs at the first lifeline available to him, which is to sell weapons. And by-the-book Odo tries to arrest Quark on trumped-up charges that he knows will never hold water, because apparently Odo hates gun sales, even when they're legal gun sales. Sisko comes in to deliver Bajor's message to Odo. "This arms merchant is a friend to Bajor, who helped Bajor win it's freedom from Cardassian slavery and oppression while the mighty Federation hid behind it's Prime Directive, so stop harassing his employees while wearing a Bajoran uniform and working on this Bajoran-owned station." Well damn. That's a smackdown. But then, Sisko has to interject his own personal opinions and threatens Quark, telling him that his friendship with Quark is over. Because guns.

If you ever sell a gun, even if it's to save your own life, even if you're standing alongside the Hero of Bajor and selling to the good guys, then the "friends" who pushed you into this uncomfortable position will all turn on you, even if it means they have to break the law to do it.

Dax won't even speak to Quark. She puts the screws to his inner turmoil, calls him despicable, and accuses him of murdering people out of greed, even though the episode just proved that there can be positive weapon sales, and Dax is the only character that we can say knows for a fact that Quark took the job for the sake of his own survival, not greed (others may or may not know, but Dax absolutely does).

When Quark is faced with selling weapons to a genocidal madman, he's clearly not on board with that, and I don't think that had anything to do with Quark being influenced by his preachy Federation friends. He's never been interested in the dirty business of weapon sales. He's "a people person". But he's not allowed to refuse the sale, or he will be killed (again with the killing, everyone always wants to kill Quark). So, for the sake of 28 million people, he resolves to sabotage the sale, even if it means his own death (a sacrifice he wasn't able to go through with before, as apparently the lives of aliens are worth more to Quark than the respect of his people).

If a generally-good man like Quark hadn't been selling weapons that day, the sale would absolutely have gone through and 28 million people would have died.

Sisko seems to know what Quark did (correcting Quark, saying that "28 million and one" won't mind that the Regent's dead), but he still reads Quark the riot act, and drops a repair bill on Quark, shoveling more debt on him, when all that Sisko did to help was patch up some holes in a cargo bay. And Dax takes him back as if nothing ever happened. Like, I guess that maybe they're trying not to make things weird and are pretending to be dicks while deep down they really appreciate what Quark did and the risks he took to do it, but it seems like they all owe him a hell of a lot more than that, especially after how dickish they were to him throughout the episode.

How many times are they supposed to bail Quark out? They already helped get him back on his feet after they took everything. And you seriously can't get why people don't want to associate with arms merchants, selling to monsters? Seriously?

[Admiral X]

I liked this episode, but it really portrayed Starfleet as a bunch of unsympathetic jerks.

*snipped*

Yeah, you've covered everything that bothered me about this episode as well. The stuff with the regent reminded me of how TNG writers had to have the alien off himself in that Prime Directive episode where Worf's adopted brother saves a few of them using the holodeck. Of course Picard came off especially bad in that one, too, almost like he was just so annoyed because these people were still alive.

[Cheerilee]

How many times are they supposed to bail Quark out?

As many times as it takes. O'Brien's tales of his old ancestor (who was gloriously found dead in the river for his convictions) directly cost Quark a shattered eye socket, several broken ribs, and a punctured lung before Odo mercifully intervened. Quark's Federation friends undermined him so badly in the eyes of his people that his own people tried to have him killed, and settled for his financial ruin and a banishment from his religion's afterlife. The absolute least his friends owed him was a stable financial future on their side of the fence.

They already helped get him back on his feet after they took everything.

They showed up for at least one day. Maybe more. If they had really helped him to get back on his feet, I can't see him putting his life on the line triple-mortgaging his bar to try and get his hands on some money, to try (and fail) to spin it into more money using his business sense and the stock market.

Quark's business wasn't THAT lucrative before, and after being blacklisted by his people, the alien-exclusive portion of his status quo obviously wasn't profitable.

And you seriously can't get why people don't want to associate with arms merchants, selling to monsters? Seriously?

Quark wasn't selling weapons to monsters. He was working for a guy who might sell to monsters, but who also sold to good people like the Bajorans. Quark was a generally-good guy who might make some "grey" sales, but had a sense of right and wrong and objected as soon as a real monster showed up.

I think his friends should have trusted him more than they did, and they should've been more understanding about how this wasn't a business that he wanted to be in, it was one that he went to out of desperation when he was literally one week away from death.

[Sir Will]

How many times are they supposed to bail Quark out?

As many times as it takes. O'Brien's tales of his old ancestor (who was gloriously found dead in the river for his convictions) directly cost Quark a shattered eye socket, several broken ribs, and a punctured lung before Odo mercifully intervened. Quark's Federation friends undermined him so badly in the eyes of his people that his own people tried to have him killed, and settled for his financial ruin and a banishment from his religion's afterlife. The absolute least his friends owed him was a stable financial future on their side of the fence.

They already helped get him back on his feet after they took everything.

They showed up for at least one day. Maybe more. If they had really helped him to get back on his feet, I can't see him putting his life on the line triple-mortgaging his bar to try and get his hands on some money, to try (and fail) to spin it into more money using his business sense and the stock market.

Quark's business wasn't THAT lucrative before, and after being blacklisted by his people, the alien-exclusive portion of his status quo obviously wasn't profitable.

And you seriously can't get why people don't want to associate with arms merchants, selling to monsters? Seriously?

Quark wasn't selling weapons to monsters. He was working for a guy who might sell to monsters, but who also sold to good people like the Bajorans. Quark was a generally-good guy who might make some "grey" sales, but had a sense of right and wrong and objected as soon as a real monster showed up.

I think his friends should have trusted him more than they did, and they should've been more understanding about how this wasn't a business that he wanted to be in, it was one that he went to out of desperation when he was literally one week away from death.

Bullshit they do! They are not responsible for Brunt's actions. They are not responsible for making sure Quark has a perfect future because somebody told Rom about worker's rights! What bullshit is this!?

They helped him rebuild the bar. What the fuck do you expect them to do!?

Working for a guy who sells to monsters means you're selling to monsters. Period. I don't care if he does good too. That doesn't make it ok!

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, even I won't blame them for Brunt's actions, and I actually agree they were being too self-righteously indignant here and not understanding enough. Sir Will is right, they don't owe him shit - though if Quark is really community leader, they could try and help him out of the goodness of their hearts, but there is also the fact the Federation doesn't grasp economics in the first place, so it's something they're out of their depth with. No doubt they just supplied him with materials thinking in their simple-minded Federation way that it would make everything all right again.

[Cheerilee]

Bullshit they do! They are not responsible for Brunt's actions. They are not responsible for making sure Quark has a perfect future because somebody told Rom about worker's rights! What bullshit is this!?

They helped him rebuild the bar. What the fuck do you expect them to do!?

I would say that they were partially responsible for Brunt's actions. Here's some quotes from the episode.

ROM: You anticipated the change of administrations here on the station.
QUARK: And as a reward I'm inextricably linked to the Federation. I'm a joke on Ferenginar. Starfleet's favourite bartender. The Synthehol King. What a legacy.

BRUNT: A contract is a contract
QUARK: Is a contract. I know that! But you don't collect on contracts under these circumstances. We're not Klingons. We're businessmen.
BRUNT: This is not business, Quark. This is personal.
QUARK: Why? What have I ever done to you?
BRUNT: Done to me? And you call your brother an idiot? Nothing you've ever done to me has been more than a minor inconvenience. No. Protecting your mother from an FCA audit, and secretly settling with your striking employees were nothing more than symptoms of a vile and insidious weakness. A weakness that makes me loath you, not for what you've done but for who you are, what you are.
QUARK: A bartender?
BRUNT: A philanthropist.
QUARK: I am not!
BRUNT: You give your customers credit at the bar. You only take a thirty percent kickback from your employees' tips, and you sold food and medicine to Bajoran refugees at cost!
QUARK: That's not true. It was just above cost.
BRUNT: Close enough. It was still a generous, humanitarian gesture. You've gone Starfleet. You might as well be wearing one of their uniforms. It's people like you that give honest Ferengi businessmen a bad name.
QUARK: I can reform. I'll start gouging the customers again. I'll revoke all my employees' vacation time.
BRUNT: You gave them vacations?
QUARK: I didn't give them anything. They contributed to a central fund which I manage.
BRUNT: You disgust me.

Quark is often painted as a scheming Ferengi, but he's done some good, usually under do-gooder Federation influence, and Ferengi society turned on him for it. Your ordinary, baseline Ferengi is much darker then Quark. It wasn't just Brunt, Brunt was acting as the will of the people. Even before Brunt arrived, Quark (having just returned from a trip to Ferenginar) told Rom about how the Federation stink on him was destroying his standing with his people.

As the guys constantly prodding Quark to do good, his Federation friends (ignorant of the consequences of their demands) do bear some responsibility for Quark's fall.

They helped him get his bar back up and running. Okay, that's a good start. But if he can't do business on the Ferengi side of the fence anymore, then they've got to try and find a way to help him keep his bar in the black with only Federation-side business. Quark should be able to turn a profit, as his religion demands. And it seems that there's an option where if he earns enough money, he can buy back his standing in Ferengi society. That should be their goal. To show that being friends with the Federation puts you on the winning team. But they didn't nearly go that far for him.

Quark sold weapons out of immediate need and desperation, and after squaring his debts away and pulling himself back up to zero, he engaged in some selfless heroism which ended his gravy train and could have killed him, and Sisko rewarded Quark with more debt, which he could have easily overlooked, but chose not to. Because sacrificing yourself for the Federation is not rewarding.

[Yukaphile]

The fact he's done good still doesn't mean they are obligated to help him. No, where it doesn't make sense is that Sisko blackmailed him to stay there, and then people keep relishing it when he threatens to leave, and do kind of tend to treat him as a joke, rather than see his role as community leader through to the end. Though like I said, that could be attributed to the Feds being clueless on how a market economy works.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

About 2/3 through the review I guessed it'd be a 6. I started bumping it up a bit for this reason or that, but yeah, I usually like to guess with a margin of error just ot hedge my bets, but I felt I stuck to my base assumption.

I'm not the most familiar with DS9, and I watched this episode before watching the review. We get a sensible story for Quark while getting a musing story with O'bryan for a supplemental part of the story. Not much outside of that though obviously. I was happy with my estimation and wagering on the score in the review.

[Cheerilee]

The fact he's done good still doesn't mean they are obligated to help him.

I see it more as... they pressured him to do good, and he refused. They pressured him harder, and he gave in and did some good. But "doing good" has consequences in Ferengi society. Quark knew that, which is part of why he resisted. The Feds didn't know that, they just assumed he was being a jerk. But their ignorance of Ferengi society doesn't change the fact that they repeatedly pressured Quark into doing self-harm.

I would say that they have *some* responsibility for the consequences that came down on Quark (not 100%, obviously), and it's in their own best interests to ensure that the people who align themselves with the Federation come out on top, as winners.