I thought similar. Why put it among Chuck's reviews?
That said, I'm entirely in favor of legalizing lolicon, even if we know preds will use it alongside harmless pervs. That's not harming real people, especially if the VAs are of legal age. Same would apply to VR programming. Hell, I am VERY much against taking pictures of real-life children nude or something to that end, though. That's exploitation of real people, and vulnerable people who trust you, and you should be looking out for. That's morally bankrupt.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:00 pm
Interesting arguments.
Hmm, could using the holodeck as a baby sit be ethical.
The Star Trek holodeck that routinely kills people? No.
A perfected real life holodeck built to real life OSHA standards? Like most machines, It would probably do a better job than a human can. A fully caring babysitter who never tires, never gets drunk, never gets neglectful and knows first-aid perfectly. And its a holodeck, so it can take your kid to a version of Disneyland for the day where there is literally nothing that can harm him.
We sae in Once Upon a Time that with the right limitations and communication skills could not only be an effective babysitter, but a good learning tool for children as well.
It could work as a twenty four seven teacher, since something I found weird is every race in Star Trek docturnal?
Star Trek races are just humans with bumpy heads and the odd magical ability. They all sleep when we do, they all have males and females, they all have a nudity taboo, they all eat the same things and drink the same things, the same medicine works on everyone, they can mostly all reproduce with each other, they all like the same entertainment, they can all catch the same diseases.
True aliens are so God damn rare in Trek. Species 8472, the Tholians and any Godlike alien they meet are really what it is limited to. Say what you like about Star Wars or Farscape but the alien diversity on offer is at a different level.
True aliens?
Alien simple means anyone whose foreign or not a naturalized citizen. It's why those outside your native country deemed hostile are called enemy aliens. If you're on foreign land you can be designated as alien. Of course most of the aliens in Star Trek are humanoid when the plots tend to involve social contacts and conflicts more than man vs. monster plots.
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:00 pm
Interesting arguments.
Hmm, could using the holodeck as a baby sit be ethical.
The Star Trek holodeck that routinely kills people? No.
A perfected real life holodeck built to real life OSHA standards? Like most machines, It would probably do a better job than a human can. A fully caring babysitter who never tires, never gets drunk, never gets neglectful and knows first-aid perfectly. And its a holodeck, so it can take your kid to a version of Disneyland for the day where there is literally nothing that can harm him.
We sae in Once Upon a Time that with the right limitations and communication skills could not only be an effective babysitter, but a good learning tool for children as well.
It could work as a twenty four seven teacher, since something I found weird is every race in Star Trek docturnal?
Star Trek races are just humans with bumpy heads and the odd magical ability. They all sleep when we do, they all have males and females, they all have a nudity taboo, they all eat the same things and drink the same things, the same medicine works on everyone, they can mostly all reproduce with each other, they all like the same entertainment, they can all catch the same diseases.
True aliens are so God damn rare in Trek. Species 8472, the Tholians and any Godlike alien they meet are really what it is limited to. Say what you like about Star Wars or Farscape but the alien diversity on offer is at a different level.
True aliens?
Alien simple means anyone whose foreign or not a naturalized citizen. It's why those outside your native country deemed hostile are called enemy aliens. If you're on foreign land you can be designated as alien. Of course most of the aliens in Star Trek are humanoid when the plots tend to involve social contacts and conflicts more than man vs. monster plots.
Fair point, I meant extra terrestrials that actually look like extra terrestrials. I can buy them being similar to us for the simple reason that I believe the human form is one of the best designs that would allow a lifeform to gain true intelligence: opposable thumbs for advanced tool use are an obvious must, a voice box capable of high level speech, a body that is not too small as to be defenceless but not too large as to require vast amounts of food, an omnivorous diet that allows us to adapt to changes in our environment better than a herbivore or carnivore could.
My problem is that they are TOO like us. Two arms, two legs, two eyes, two sexes, a human face. Evolution should not work as exactly as that (and the DNA puzzle idea is not realistic either).
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:00 pm
Interesting arguments.
Hmm, could using the holodeck as a baby sit be ethical.
The Star Trek holodeck that routinely kills people? No.
A perfected real life holodeck built to real life OSHA standards? Like most machines, It would probably do a better job than a human can. A fully caring babysitter who never tires, never gets drunk, never gets neglectful and knows first-aid perfectly. And its a holodeck, so it can take your kid to a version of Disneyland for the day where there is literally nothing that can harm him.
We sae in Once Upon a Time that with the right limitations and communication skills could not only be an effective babysitter, but a good learning tool for children as well.
It could work as a twenty four seven teacher, since something I found weird is every race in Star Trek docturnal?
Star Trek races are just humans with bumpy heads and the odd magical ability. They all sleep when we do, they all have males and females, they all have a nudity taboo, they all eat the same things and drink the same things, the same medicine works on everyone, they can mostly all reproduce with each other, they all like the same entertainment, they can all catch the same diseases.
True aliens are so God damn rare in Trek. Species 8472, the Tholians and any Godlike alien they meet are really what it is limited to. Say what you like about Star Wars or Farscape but the alien diversity on offer is at a different level.
True aliens?
Alien simple means anyone whose foreign or not a naturalized citizen. It's why those outside your native country deemed hostile are called enemy aliens. If you're on foreign land you can be designated as alien. Of course most of the aliens in Star Trek are humanoid when the plots tend to involve social contacts and conflicts more than man vs. monster plots.
Fair point, I meant extra terrestrials that actually look like extra terrestrials. I can buy them being similar to us for the simple reason that I believe the human form is one of the best designs that would allow a lifeform to gain true intelligence: opposable thumbs for advanced tool use are an obvious must, a voice box capable of high level speech, a body that is not too small as to be defenceless but not too large as to require vast amounts of food, an omnivorous diet that allows us to adapt to changes in our environment better than a herbivore or carnivore could.
My problem is that they are TOO like us. Two arms, two legs, two eyes, two sexes, a human face. Evolution should not work as exactly as that (and the DNA puzzle idea is not realistic either).
Also fair point. Reminds me of something I read in Mary Russell's The Sparrow. Why do some rarely see hind-legged lifeforms on other planets with tails like the ones in her books? One character though their absence didn't really seem like an evolutionary asset.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:30 pm
My problem is that they are TOO like us. Two arms, two legs, two eyes, two sexes, a human face. Evolution should not work as exactly as that (and the DNA puzzle idea is not realistic either).
Ignoring most of the thread to jump in on this -
Obviously that's because it's far, far easier to stick some bumps on the head of a human actor, even though there are alternatives (puppets or CGI). And when you do stray from that it gets fraught with difficulty, since we've not got a clue about life away from Earth. Too different and you're being unconvincgly different for the sake of it (remember Chuck's complaint about the Tak-Tak, and that's with a human-with-stuff-glued-on alien), too similar and we're back to square one. Until we see some aliens for real we'll be pretty stuck.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:30 pm
My problem is that they are TOO like us. Two arms, two legs, two eyes, two sexes, a human face. Evolution should not work as exactly as that (and the DNA puzzle idea is not realistic either).
Ignoring most of the thread to jump in on this -
Obviously that's because it's far, far easier to stick some bumps on the head of a human actor, even though there are alternatives (puppets or CGI). And when you do stray from that it gets fraught with difficulty, since we've not got a clue about life away from Earth. Too different and you're being unconvincgly different for the sake of it (remember Chuck's complaint about the Tak-Tak, and that's with a human-with-stuff-glued-on alien), too similar and we're back to square one. Until we see some aliens for real we'll be pretty stuck.
Linkara: As we established with KO-35, we really only have 2 extremes with alien races: Either "humanoid", or "OH GOD RUN AWAY".
Let's look at how the holodeck was used on the Enterprise and Voyager. Basically you gave yourself a fantasy or practice at an activity to go and do things not available on a sterile ship environment. For all the snark that the Enterprise D was a cruise ship. The civilians rarely seemed to disembark on planets. The ship kept going and sent shuttles for people to visit Risa for example.
So the holodeck is as little as a little 'outside' for people to relax in. To excitement like high diving and weight rooms. But you could still hurt yourself even with safeties. The man challenging the Doctor because he hurt himself working out in early Voyager comes to mind. The fact it happened twice had the doctor report him.
No one knew Barclay's holodeck recreations and while Riker and Geordi were a bit miffed to be characters in it. The ship's counselor thought it therapeutic, right up until she saw her own image being used.
So it seems in the post scarcity setting of Trek what you do in your spare time is no ones business. Unless that activity affects you professionally. Note no one even knew B'ellana was doing dangerous holo simulations till it began to really affect her work. Then it was a full on intervention.
Barclay needing to basically hide in the holodeck wasn't even understood till Guinan pointed out the issue. And Barclay got better as he was treated better.
So I would say the use of the Holodeck in setting is nobodies business but yours, until it affects others directly. Kira does not like being used. So her image sold and used at all offends her. But those images are also used all the time for training. I expect there might be scenarios for security to practice working with X officer. But that officer is represented by a hologram. Surgeons practicing on holographic children to help steady their nerves. And if the child on the table dies? It was a hologram, it is alright. Practice and try again. Or move to a new career.
Not one mention of Geordi and Leah Brahms? Geordi had her holo on the beach. Mind you, he should have locked the door so Leah couldn't just walk in on him making the moves on her hologram...
Yeah, she was upset, for the same reason we've discussed here. Likewise with Troi in the previous season.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
I haven't actually seen Bobby Trap or Galaxy Child, only Chuck's review of the former. Some interesting discussion about creepy implications of how Geordi responses to getting caught, whether the episode let's him off to easy, and how his situation compares to Barclay can be found in this review and the various response. https://www.tor.com/2012/04/13/star-trek-the-next-generation-galaxys-child/
