Tim Sweeny says to get dem poltiks out his games!

[ProfessorDetective]

Oh yes, I love being preached to by my entertainment. That's why so many woke titles do so well!

You know, you strike me as very aggressive here, which is off-putting, and yet... I do agree with your sentiment here. Especially when they cannot even live up to the values that they claim to preach. Case in point, look to TNG where they go on a big tirade about how "it's okay to be gay" without ever using that word or showing off a gay couple. I think Garak and Bashir would have been an amazing couple, they had great chemistry, and... it's a shame, with the potential in a character like Jadzia Dax.

Or shows like Steven Universe climbing they have lesbian and non-binary rep, but they have to wrap it in every metaphor they can think of and never just say simple words like 'wife', 'girlfriend', 'married', etc. The Asari from Mass Effect are another example, but at least they weren't as full of themselves about it. They can't be homosexuals or non-binary when they're part of a mono-gendered alien species, the concept of the former would be lost on them and the latter... it's in the damn name.

[Mecha82]

Problem is that when people say take politics out of video games (or any other media) they really mean take politics that they don't agree with out of video games. In other words they don't want they political views to be challenged which are very often conservative views as they want to maintain certain staus quo. In other words they are hypocrites. Oh and who was show runner of TNG Berman is very much conservative and reason why they never had gay couple in shows that he was in charge of.

[Captain Crimson]

Problem is that when people say take politics out of video games (or any other media) they really mean take politics that they don't agree with out of video games. In other words they don't want they political views to be challenged which are very often conservative views as they want to maintain certain staus quo. In other words they are hypocrites. Oh and who was show runner of TNG Berman is very much conservative and reason why they never had gay couple in shows that he was in charge of.

I'll say that I'd love more LGBT representation. But I'm like Mr. Chuck. I want it to be natural, and not to supersede any traditional couplings, because those are still going to happen. And yet, the way LF and Mr. Abrams were treating the two-second kiss in TROS as a victory irks me as much as the preaching done in TNG's The Outcast when gay people are never name-dropped not once. It is a double standard done to score points and driven only by marketing and corporate limits. My worst fear is given how badly woke culture is going, that it could eventually convince the suits they need to tone back on it, which really wouldn't help the LGBT cause.

[ProfessorDetective]

Problem is that when people say take politics out of video games (or any other media) they really mean take politics that they don't agree with out of video games. In other words they don't want they political views to be challenged which are very often conservative views as they want to maintain certain staus quo. In other words they are hypocrites. Oh and who was show runner of TNG Berman is very much conservative and reason why they never had gay couple in shows that he was in charge of.

I'll say that I'd love more LGBT representation. But I'm like Mr. Chuck. I want it to be natural, and not to supersede any traditional couplings, because those are still going to happen. And yet, the way LF and Mr. Abrams were treating the two-second kiss in TROS as a victory irks me as much as the preaching done in TNG's The Outcast when gay people are never name-dropped not once. It is a double standard done to score points and driven only by marketing and corporate limits. My worst fear is given how badly woke culture is going, that it could eventually convince the suits they need to tone back on it, which really wouldn't help the LGBT cause.

Patting themselves on the back for doing LESS than the bare minimum.

[GreyICE]

Wait, are there posters on a board for videos reviewing Star Trek that have a problem with politics in media?

As for the idea that games have never been attacked for being too progressive, holy shit some people slept through the 90s. The ongoing battle over gay rights and whether we could have a gay character in our "games aimed at children that are corrupting the youth" were legendary. Games were accused of promoting:

Homosexuality
Anti-Americanism
Unchristian values
Disobedience towards your parents
Drug use
Socialism
Communism
Satanism

The "get this out of games!" mentality and the corporate suits who ran around trying to make sure their games contained none of that is just about as old as the internet, in a very literal sense. There were christian movements to ban kids from playing video games, and a lot of early 90s board gaming in America was driven by right-wing Christians (which is one of the things that makes the hobby hilarious nowadays - board game conventions are the only places you'll find Christian ministers and born agains sitting down with polyamorous transgender furries because they both really want to play a game of Nations or Dune)

[Beastro]

I feel like people complain about any shred of introspective material as if it's propaganda. C'est la vie I guess.

Not wanting revisionist in gaming is fine I think btw.

The issue for me is if a work can stand without a certain element removed from it. Take Sonic and the environmental themes that were at least in the early games. You remove that aspect and you still have a solid game. Now compare that to Captain Planet, where the clear propaganda is the only reason for the shows existence. You remove the environmentalism and Captain Planet isn't Captain Planet.

The issue is overtness and stressing things, rather than letting them stand and allowing the people to take or leave what you offer. I find this is apt too when applied to the many cringey religious games that have been around since th. NES days. Games like Bible Stories are clearly made by people who don't give a damn about games and just wanted to get their target subject material involved in something they'd heard was something kids liked. Same with Captain Planet trying to make environmentalism fun alongside all the other 90s crap like it.

Problem is that when people say take politics out of video games (or any other media) they really mean take politics that they don't agree with out of video games. In other words they don't want they political views to be challenged which are very often conservative views as they want to maintain certain staus quo. In other words they are hypocrites. Oh and who was show runner of TNG Berman is very much conservative and reason why they never had gay couple in shows that he was in charge of.

That cuts both ways, especially given the typical dirth of right leaning material in games and other media.

An issue here comes with the above I wrote. If right leaning people didn't want differing political views around them they wouldn't watch or read much of anything. The thing is that isn't the issue. We can accept differing views in fiction so long as it doesn't come across forced and as the only reason for the work to exist. It's for this reason that a lot of ex-military guys I know will act like fire-eaters over the latest differing opinions on foreign policy, dismissing the enemy press and "demonrats" for not taking hard stances, then talk about their love of Sci-Fi, and especially Trek, without a hint of disgust for the political leanings of the show or its messages.

As for Berman being conservative, I haven't seen a conservative viewpoint out of Trek under his wing at all. As for the issue you bring up. There's more than just conservatives that can dislike homosexuals and general all around displays of intimacy on TV and movies. You may like to throw in prudishness with conservatism, but if you do then you clearly do not know Americans (Which are only prudish in the fact that they're intensely private about such aspects of their lives, not that they're all showering in their bathing suits).

I mean, look at how terribly romance in general is handled in Trek. It's hardly like Worf and Dax's relationship was anything but anemic, and Torres and Paris only stand out because it was only half decent lacking that cringey stiltedness the rest of the TNG era had.

[Draco Dracul]

My worst fear is given how badly woke culture is going, that it could eventually convince the suits they need to tone back on it, which really wouldn't help the LGBT cause.

I mean in general the suits are the ones that have been stopping it going forward even as acceptance of LBGT groups reaches new highs because A) the suits are large older conservatives, and B) they want that Chinese money despite the fact that going all in on China basically gutted Paramount.

[Captain Crimson]

My worst fear is given how badly woke culture is going, that it could eventually convince the suits they need to tone back on it, which really wouldn't help the LGBT cause.

I mean in general the suits are the ones that have been stopping it going forward even as acceptance of LBGT groups reaches new highs because A) the suits are large older conservatives, and B) they want that Chinese money despite the fact that going all in on China basically gutted Paramount.

Is it, really? Stuff like marketing the lesbian kiss in TROS as a victory is meaningless when they knew they were gonna cut it in overseas markets. That rubs me the wrong way.

[Draco Dracul]

My worst fear is given how badly woke culture is going, that it could eventually convince the suits they need to tone back on it, which really wouldn't help the LGBT cause.

I mean in general the suits are the ones that have been stopping it going forward even as acceptance of LBGT groups reaches new highs because A) the suits are large older conservatives, and B) they want that Chinese money despite the fact that going all in on China basically gutted Paramount.

Is it, really? Stuff like marketing the lesbian kiss in TROS as a victory is meaningless when they knew they were gonna cut it in overseas markets. That rubs me the wrong way.

Right, and do you think the guys patting themselves on the back for giving a less than token gesture that bas been beaten out by literal children's cartoons are doing it because they believe in the cause? They're only doing it at all because support for gays and lesbians in the 18-48 demographic (the most profitable one) is sky high and film is badly lagging behind tv in representation.

[Captain Crimson]

My worst fear is given how badly woke culture is going, that it could eventually convince the suits they need to tone back on it, which really wouldn't help the LGBT cause.

I mean in general the suits are the ones that have been stopping it going forward even as acceptance of LBGT groups reaches new highs because A) the suits are large older conservatives, and B) they want that Chinese money despite the fact that going all in on China basically gutted Paramount.

Is it, really? Stuff like marketing the lesbian kiss in TROS as a victory is meaningless when they knew they were gonna cut it in overseas markets. That rubs me the wrong way.

Right, and do you think the guys patting themselves on the back for giving a less than token gesture that bas been beaten out by literal children's cartoons are doing it because they believe in the cause? They're only doing it at all because support for gays and lesbians in the 18-48 demographic (the most profitable one) is sky high and film is badly lagging behind tv in representation.

I think we may be on fundamentally different wavelengths here. I was talking about how the push-back to the LGBT themes could lead them to scale it down. And it's not even really the LGBT themes. It's the fact modern corporate entertainment has very low expectations so that once something is hit with negative feedback, any little thing is open to getting criticized.