Strange New Worlds

[stryke]

Britain also invented Judge Dredd

Important to note that the Federation and the Doctor are meant to be the good thing on those shows, Judge Dredd and the Imperium of 40k who share a lot of the same DNA, not so much.

It's when people miss that essential point that they're both responses to Thatcher's UK of the 80s about how that was not a good thing in the slightest, and take them at face value you get the more effed up elements in the fanbases.

[Riedquat]

Seriously man, gotta ask. You hate the idea of peace, international unity, manned spaceflight, social progressiveness, all that stuff you've railed against all of that stuff here, you're really into international isolationism and cultural supremacy, and militarism, stay-at-homeism, you've praised all that stuff. So, I gotta ask, what the actual fuck are you getting out of Star Trek? It, and Trek fandom, are based on all the stuff you seem to hate and want to not exist. Help me understand what you get out of it, if the hope of a better, more interconnected, future among the stars is so anathema to you?
[/quote]
Never seen any stuff like international isolationism or cultural supremacy from him. Saying so though does sound like someone at the opposite extreme trying to label everything else in as negative terms as possible.

As for liking something in fiction, well, I really don't want to live in a very high-tech world, doesn't mean I don't find science ficiton interesting and enjoyable (although as mentioned earlier I'd very much like the whole space travel, and, appropriately, strange new worlds aspect). Does anyone here want to get phasered or assimilated by the Borg? You can enjoy a fiction without wanting it to be reality.

[CrypticMirror]

Never seen any stuff like international isolationism or cultural supremacy from him.

They are a Brexiteer, they've gone off on that one a couple of times.

[Sir Will]

Yeah how's that working out for the UK?

The Federation is too hypocritical to deliver an anti-war message anyway. They fly around the galaxy with ships capable to glassing a planet and sidearms capable of disintegrating a man and yet they are supposed to be the peaceful ones. Lets be honest, with the exception of season 1 and 2 TNG (and Chakotay), the Federation is often the one's to shoot first and ask questions later.

''We're not a military!'' they say with their military ranks, military discipline, court martials, antimatter weapons and numerous guns.
''We're peaceful!'' they say just before one of their weekly firefights, the smell of burnt flesh wafting past their noses as they leave.

No offence intended, and I mean that, that is the fundamental problem with America bringing its gun culture to the stars. Britain invents Dr Who, a mostly pacifist man who travels the universe unarmed and tries to solve problems by talking. America gives us the United Federation of Heavily Armed Peace.

So they should roll over and be enslaved by the other species in the universe with guns?

[CharlesPhipps]

The Federation is informed by the fact its first writers are a bunch of WW2 veterans.

Democracy is great.
Diversity is great.
The League of Nations/UN Is not going to be a joke (this time)

And you'll have to kill a shit ton of people to preserve it.

[stryke]

Yeah how's that working out for the UK

Direly so, but then I thought that before it happened so hey can't speak for those who still have the blinkers on and think all those bus promised millions will be spent on the NHS anyday now, just you wait....

[McAvoy]

The Federation is informed by the fact its first writers are a bunch of WW2 veterans.

Democracy is great.
Diversity is great.
The League of Nations/UN Is not going to be a joke (this time)

And you'll have to kill a shit ton of people to preserve it.

TOS Federation was ill defined that experiences from WW2 was probably not a factor.

If you treat Trek like the days of sailing ships where if took weeks or months to get to one destination and that you may be the only ship in the area, the captain makes all of the ultimate decisions in behalf of his crew and country. Then it makes more sense.

Also I don't know where Clearspira gets that the Federation shoots first idea from. Pretty much most Trek episodes have the other ship fire first. Janeway and Picard both do this alot and when they do shoot back usually its not even a lethal blow. It's usually to disable the ship, not destroy it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Batman and Spider-Man are British stories.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The federation is about as bad as either the soviets or Cold War era America. Most any episode with it shows a union either politicizing humane issues or engaging in conflict for survival.

[CharlesPhipps]

TOS Federation was ill defined that experiences from WW2 was probably not a factor.

TOS federation gets a decent number of speeches where Kirk says we've abolished all the evils of greed, materialism, and so on. The writers like DC Fontana and others were full of big huge ideas, plenty of which got put in pen and paper novels or in their notes.

And remember the TOS era lasted to The Undiscovered Country.